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    Thread: What is the promise?

    1. #1
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      Default What is the promise?

      John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

      On any given Sunday or Saturday for that matter the majority of persons in Church here in T&T, on their knees believing that they are calling on God, are of African descent.
      Also on any given Monday morning the majority of persons in front of the court house or who are in some social or economic liability are the same.

      What is wrong with this picture?

      James said: “Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss.”

      Obviously!

      When the children of Israel were led out of captivity they did not straight away adopt the ways of the Egyptians nor did they worship their gods.

      We the great grandchildren of slaves are still in captivity because we have not sought the TRUTH. Instead we have foolishly retained the understanding given to us by those to whom we were enslaved.
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      For people of African decent our problems lie in us trying to gain success by following “a way” which required our enslavement. We have failed to recognize that by following “that way” we have further enslaved ourselves.
      I remember when our former Prime Minster Basdeo Panday said that Black people’s problem was that they lack business acumen.

      What is this all desirable missing ingredient ........business acumen?

      Business is one human being’s exploitation of another for a profit. This then makes business acumen the keenness and quickness in placing one’s self in the position to seize opportunities to exploit people and situations.
      Exploitation which is no different than the act of larger fish feeding on smaller ones is of the animal kingdom. As humans we were suppose to live to a higher standard.
      Black people being the smallest fish, can only engage in exploitation by feeding on smaller fish of their own kind. In other word for the most part we can only exploit each other making our situation worst.

      It’s time we recognize that Jesus Christ is our example not Massa.
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      The promise that: “ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free,” is saying clearly that we have been deceived by an untruth which is the cause of our enslavement.

      In New Jersey one of my co-workers had a bumper sticker that said: “He that dies with the most toys wins.”

      At first I thought to myself, how sad? But after thinking on it a bit more I realized that we have all been deceived by the belief that the purpose of life is to amass material possessions and to gain influence in the world. This is the goal called success; “the way” to prominence in the kingdom of man.

      The kingdom of man has given us a world of great suffering because prominence for one man always comes at the expense of another and before the coming of Jesus Christ we all believed this was “the only way.”

      Jesus Christ came to reveal the true purpose of life; the kingdom of God and in so doing He freed us from the untruth that the kingdom of man which has enslaved us is “the only way.”
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      Quote Originally Posted by Like it is View Post
      John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

      On any given Sunday or Saturday for that matter the majority of persons in Church here in T&T, on their knees believing that they are calling on God, are of African descent.
      Also on any given Monday morning the majority of persons in front of the court house or who are in some social or economic liability are the same.


      What is wrong with this picture?

      James said: “Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss.”

      Obviously!

      When the children of Israel were led out of captivity they did not straight away adopt the ways of the Egyptians nor did they worship their gods.

      We the great grandchildren of slaves are still in captivity because we have not sought the TRUTH. Instead we have foolishly retained the understanding given to us by those to whom we were enslaved.
      On any given day when I go to church (I try to go everyday) can't really say I notice who is there as most of the time my eyes are closed.

      .... Why am I there? ..... to renew my faith, so that regardless of how difficult things may be.... I know someone has my back and the backs of others

      ..... Who am I praying for?.... for those who for what ever reason are not able to be there in person....to speak for themselves...

      maybe those you see on Sunday or Saturday..... are praying for those you see Monday?

      "Judge not, least ye be judged yourself" .... No?
      "Yuh kar want fer dem..... wat dey doh want fer deyself"

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      Quote Originally Posted by snowbird View Post
      On any given day when I go to church (I try to go everyday) can't really say I notice who is there as most of the time my eyes are closed.

      .... Why am I there? ..... to renew my faith, so that regardless of how difficult things may be.... I know someone has my back and the backs of others

      ..... Who am I praying for?.... for those who for what ever reason are not able to be there in person....to speak for themselves...

      maybe those you see on Sunday or Saturday..... are praying for those you see Monday?

      "Judge not, least ye be judged yourself" .... No?
      A simple question is being asked here.

      If you left home with directions to get to grandma’s house and if you have been driving for hours and you are still not there, isn’t it time to wonder if you took the wrong road.

      I grew up being told about the suffering of my fore parents and I have watched our continual suffering which is now even worst for many of the chrildren of my fore parents.

      Because of this I almost gave up on spirituality as a young man. I was beginning to doubt because I could not understand why God did not liberate us from such suffering?

      This simple question: Are we praying amiss? saved me and I ask it here now because I believe it could save someone who is beginning to doubt the same way I was.
      Last edited by Like it is; 04-29-2012 at 06:40 PM.
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      I've read the NT a few times but lately I read this and this is it: Come to me all of you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matthew 11:28-30

      Jesus is talking about our LOVE of him & his LOVE of us.
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      You would never know more than Google!!! - Trini123

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      Quote Originally Posted by trini123 View Post
      I've read the NT a few times but lately I read this and this is it: Come to me all of you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matthew 11:28-30

      Jesus is talking about our LOVE of him & his LOVE of us.
      Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Matthew 11:28-30

      The eleventh chapter of Matthew Jesus went into the cities to teach and to preach.
      Verses 28-30 He is calling on “those that labour and are heavy laden” to them He promised a easier yoke and a lighter burden.

      By the very words He used we can tell He was calling on those who were greatly troubled in the world. “Take my yoke and learn of me” He said which clearly showed that He was teaching of a “new way” which would free them from the burdens of this world.

      We have “the way of the world” and “the way of the Lord.” This is the choice we have to make to be saved.

      This is exactly what John is saying here in his first epistle; we overcome the world by our faith in the teaching of Jesus Christ.

      1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      The kingdom of man

      Ex. 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

      We dishonor our fore parents and our selves when we pretend that we do not notice that it’s our children that are lying face down on the news each night. Whether as child soldiers in the old world or as gangs members in the new our children are mindlessly killing each other.

      It’s our shame that we go along with the order of things and do not ask ourselves, why?



      Here in man’s kingdom: Why do we shoulder the lion’s share of all suffering?

      We are the less fortunate, the under privileged, and the disenfranchised. Every evil that exists, epidemics, wide spread starvation, abject poverty and all the social ills that accompany it, all seem to be our plight.

      Are we the worst people on earth? Is this God’s judgement upon us?

      Absolutely not!

      This is our place, our condition in the kingdom of man.

      This is the evidence, the proof that it profit us the least to be of this world. In this kingdom we will never be comfortable or find a reason to be proud of who we are. We will always be strangers in a strange land.

      Should we then envy those who are comfortable in this kingdom? and wish we were like they.

      Absolutely not!

      Jesus said: “In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”

      When we understand the message of Jesus Christ, we realize that we are in the best possible position. We have really only one sensible option and it’s to reject the kingdom of man in which we can only find suffering.

      Therefore we should be thankful for our discomfort and our sense of not belonging in this kingdom, and let it be our incentive to seek another.
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      Let’s face it, many persons in Church at any given time are seeking greater prominence in the kingdom of man and they are asking God to intervene on their behave.

      The problem is God cannot help us with this. This is what James was taking about when he said: “Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss.”

      God cannot help you with the things of this world. Church is really for those who have chosen the Kingdom of God over the kingdom of man.

      If your aspirations are in the kingdom of man and you are in Church then you are really in the wrong place and you are wasting your time.

      If you are seeking the Kingdom of God you are in the right place but this is not enough.

      Notice Jesus said it’s possible to worship in vain.

      How?

      If we worship through “Church doctrine” instead of through what He taught.

      Matt. 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      The Kingdom of God

      It’s customary that we spend the better part of the week fully engage in the struggle for material conquest and in the battle of who is better than who.

      Then on Sunday we congregate, sing a few songs, say Glory Hallelujah and Amen a few times as our pastor sermonizes a verse of scripture and we believe we have worshiped the Lord.

      We worship in vain because we do what is customary and what is traditional and not what He taught. (SEE Mark 7:7-8)

      Jesus taught us to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and mind and He taught us to love our neighbour as we love our self. (SEE Matthew 22:36-39)

      He described theses as the two great commandments and He said: “On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

      He also taught us not to focus on our material needs and desires but to seek the Kingdom of God first, for all our needs and the desire of our heart will be included. (SEE Matthew 6:31-33)

      The Kingdom of God is the purpose of our existence.

      It’s a new state of being in which we are conscious of God as our Father and of having all our needs met. It’s not of common understanding, it requires a knowledge of the truth and the belief in spirit, and it can only be received through faith in the sayings of Jesus Christ.

      But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:23-24KJV)
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      When we love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and mind and when we love our neighbour as ourself as Jesus taught, we receive a new spirit, a different spirit from that which is in the world, where it’s dog eat dog and every man for himself.

      When we put our faith in “the promise” of Jesus Christ as oppose to fighting each other down for the things of the earth, we are in effect choosing sides which in the end determines the kingdom we inherit.




      There are two spirits in the world. The Spirit of Christ and the spirit of anti-christ and whether we know it or not we are serving one of them.

      The Spirit of Christ; the Spirit of cooperation, commands brotherhood and engenders the finer human qualities.

      The spirit of anti-christ; the spirit of competition, precludes brotherhood and engenders all the evil qualities in men.

      Our spiritual progress is advanced not by our accomplishments in the world nor by the doctrine we believe but by which spirit we serve.
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      None of us could be fooled into accepting counterfeit currency, unless it resembled the real thing so closely, that we could not tell the difference.

      The question then is: Why are we so easily deceived into accepting “Church doctrine” over the teaching of Jesus Christ, when there is such difference between the two?

      The Church teaches that salvation through the cross is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Yet Jesus taught the gospel of the kingdom of God.

      The Church teaches that the kingdom of God is a place, to which those who have accepted Jesus as their Saviour will go when they die. But what did Jesus say about the kingdom of God?

      And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17:20-21KJV)

      Without listing all the differences, we still cannot escape the question; why have we accepted something, that is so different to what He taught?

      The reason is this, we believe that “disobedience and punishment” is the message of the scriptures. As a result the need to appease an angry God is at the heart of our beliefs.

      Since we have broken God's law a payment has to be made to Him for our disobedience. Christ death on the cross is seen as that payment; He offering Himself as a sacrifice in our place: As a consequence we have disregarded what He taught.
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      Clearly the scriptures presents us with two images of God.

      In the old testament God is presented as “wrath and vengeance,” while in the new testament He is presented as “love and forgiveness.”

      Obviously God did not start off with one nature, and then acquired another.

      The old testament image is our view of God before the coming of Jesus Christ and the mission of John the Baptiste was to prepare us for the coming of the Lord.

      Baptism and repentance is suppose to signify; that we are getting rid of the old image, and making way for a new one. (SEE Luke 3:3-4) The two images are incompatible so we must progress from one to the other, and not possess both at the same time. (SEE Matthew 9:16-17)

      In the old testament blood was shed for the forgiveness of sin, so to make a clear distinction between His blood, and the blood of the old testament, Jesus said:

      For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (Matthew 26:28KJV)

      God forgives us of all manner of sin, but the cause of sin, “blasphemy against the Holy Ghost,” cannot be forgiven, it has to be removed.

      Jesus is saying here, that His blood of the new testament was shed not for the forgiveness of sin but to remove the cause of sin.

      Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. (Matthew 12:31KJV)
      Last edited by Like it is; 06-08-2012 at 06:12 AM.
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      There is no difference in understanding, of a young man that disobeyed his parent, played with fire, and got burnt, and Adam who disobeyed God, partook of the knowledge of good and evil, and brought about our down fall, as the following analogy tries to illustrate.



      Once there was a Father who had a young son whom he loved very much. This loving Father wanted to protect His son from all hurts and pain, so He admonished him, not to play with the fire, or he would surely get burnt.
      Being the adventurous spirit that most young boys are, the son proceeded to play with the fire the minute his Father’s back was turned, and he was tragically burned.

      Then there was an even more tragic turn of events, instead of realizing that he was experiencing the effect of the fire, the young son believed that he was being punished for his disobedience. This tragic misconception had a serious toll on the relationship between the Father and His son. It concealed the true nature of the Father, as love, and so their relationship became one based on a set of rules, that the son felt, he must obey or he’d be punished.
      Fortunately the Father had an Older Son, who knew of His love, and how much He suffered over the state of His younger brother. He agreed to demonstrate for the benefit of His younger brother, the effect of the fire, and their Father’s all-transforming love. So the Older Brother allowed Himself to be burned beyond all hope, confident that His Father’s all-transforming love would restore him as He was before.

      Once again the younger brother misconceived the demonstration, believing, that his Older Brother was being punished in his place. As a last-ditch effort to save the young son, the Father had the Whole Story from the beginning to the end, written and left where the young son could find it, and read it. He hoped that his son would finally see the effect of the fire as the cause of all his hurts and pain, and that which separates him from his Father’s love.



      The purpose of this analogy is to illustrate, how the religious belief in “disobedience and punishment” was conceived, how we perceived the nature of God as “wrath and vengeance,” and why we chose “the doctrine of substitutionary atonement” over the teaching of Jesus Christ.


      http://carm.org/christianity/christian-doctrine/substitutionary-atonement-jesus-christ
      Last edited by Like it is; 06-14-2012 at 10:59 PM.
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Genesis 2:17KJV)

      We believe that God forbade Adam from partaking of “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.”

      We have failed to accept “the knowledge of good and evil,” as the cause of our downfall, and that God warned Adam against it for this very reason.

      This has left us with a forbidden fruit, and the idea that God was just testing Adam’s obedience. Our failure to accept “the knowledge of good and evil,” as the cause of our problems, is also responsible for us misinterpreting the consequences it brings, as punishment from God, hence the belief in “disobedience and punishment.”

      It’s written: Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. (Exodus 20:7KJV)

      This does not mean, don’t say “Oh God” as many believe.

      The scripture is saying here, the name or “image” that we assign to God, is not done in vain. In other words a false image of God is not without consequence. When we harbor a false image of God, we become unrighteous, or we are not right with God.

      This is the cause of sin, and what Jesus called blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.

      Jesus came to undo what Adam did, so we must understand what Adam did, if we are to understand what Jesus came to undo.

      -By partaking of “the knowledge of good and evil,” Adam acquired a false image of the Father and became unrighteous.

      -By becoming unrighteous, he removed himself from the presence of the Father.

      -By removing himself from His Father’s presence he became more and more conscious of “the things of the flesh” and less and less conscious of spirit.

      -By becoming flesh conscious he gave “the things of the flesh” supremacy over the Spirit.

      This is the cause of sin and how he blasphemed against the Holy Ghost.

      Jesus came to reveal the TRUTH; “the true nature of God” as spirit, and to demonstrate the supremacy of spirit over “the things of the flesh.”

      This is the promise of John 8:32
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      The Mission of Jesus Christ

      The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (John 1:29KJV)

      The doctrine of substitutionary atonement takes the position that Jesus Christ took our place. It’s the belief that God needed a payment for breaking His law. The death of Jesus Christ is seen as that payment, and an example of how much God loves us. It’s also the belief that the sacrifice was made to God.

      But John the Baptiste totally refuted this belief by describing Jesus as “the Lamb of God.”

      The Lamb is the sacrifice and John is saying here that Jesus Christ is God’s Lamb. In other words it’s God that’s offering the sacrifice. God is sacrificing His Son as “the way” to nullify the cause of sin and to reconcile us unto Himself. (SEE 2 Corinthians 5:18)

      Jesus mission was to free us from “the belief in good and evil” and to demonstrate the supremacy of spirit over “the things of the flesh.”

      So He taught us not to resist evil. (SEE Matthew 5:38-40) If we resist not evil, resolute in the belief that it has no power over us, then we affirm that God is the only power; The Almighty. The scripture says, then heaven rejoices; “Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth:” (SEE Revelation 19:6)

      Heaven rejoices because we are finally free of “the belief in good and evil.”

      It’s important to note that Jesus did not teach us only through His words, He also demonstrated His teaching through His works and actions. Example: He taught us not to resist evil and He then demonstrated it on the way to the cross.

      For many who believe in the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, the question is; Then why Jesus had to die?

      As much as Jesus taught and demonstrated during His life, there were still those things that He could only demonstrate through His death and resurrection.

      Through His death and resurrection He demonstrated His power over death, “the proof of the supremacy of spirit over the flesh,” (SEE John 10:17-18 & Romans 8:11) and He also supplied “the proof that He was, whom He said He was.” (SEE Matthew 12:39-40)
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      (For we walk by faith, not by sight: ) (2 Cor. 5:7KJV)

      Faith is the necessary requirement, for the journey from human understanding to spiritual understanding; But how many us of really understand what faith is?

      In most dictionaries belief and faith are considered to be synonymous, and while this is literally true, “the faith” that’s required for the spiritual journey is of an entirely different understanding than the faith of the dictionary.

      Faith is the ability to hold steadfastly to the “TRUTH,” even when what we see is the absolute opposite.

      Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. (John 7:24KJV)

      It’s the ability to accept what we do not yet understand, and be confident that the understanding would be revealed to us.

      Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. John 16:13KJV

      Faith is the belief in spirit, and “heaven, the realm of spirit.” It’s also the belief in the supremacy of spirit over the things of the earth.

      And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 16:19KJV)

      Without faith we can neither obey the teaching of Jesus Christ, nor can we receive what He promised.

      Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. (John 14:12KJV)
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      Like faith, most of us have the wrong understanding of sin. We believe that we sin when we transgress the law. The fact is Adam brought sin into the world long before the law of Moses.

      During His “Sermon on the Mount” (See Matthew 5:3 - 7:27) Jesus taught:
      “That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.”

      Using two of the major commandments of the law, thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not commit adultery, Jesus taught that we don’t have to actually kill or commit adultery to be left outside of the kingdom.

      Sin is any violation of “the Truth.”

      We are not sinners because we sin. We are sinners because we have inherited “a sinful nature” and by nature we are sinners.

      The scripture says: “that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God.” (SEE Galatians 3:11) and that “the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.” (SEE Galatians 3:24-25)

      In order that our righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees we must cease trying to serve God through the law and instead seek to be justified by faith.

      The belief in good and evil and the consequences of that belief causes us to violate “the truth.”

      To align our self with “the truth” we must become more like Our Father. Our Father is love and forgiveness and He is the only power, the Almighty.
      So Jesus is teaching us here; to give up the belief that evil has any power, to forgive, and to love even our enemies; That we may be the children of Our Father which is in heaven. (SEE Matthew 5:38-47)

      *It’s also very important for us to note how high Jesus has set the bar.

      Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
      (Matthew 5:48KJV)
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      How fortunate it was for Nicodemus who knew that he did not understand what Jesus meant when He said: “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

      And equally, how unfortunate it has been for many of us who think we do.

      Many of us describe our self as “Born Again Christians,” but do we resemble Jesus’s description of he who is born of the spirit?

      The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:8KJV)

      Clearly Jesus was describing someone who is no longer within the boundaries of human understanding.

      Jesus was trying here to explain that there are two states of being, one that can only know the things of the flesh and another that is not confined to the flesh but can also know the things of God through the spirit.

      “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

      Today believing in “the doctrine of substitutionary atonement” is seen as being “born again” but Jesus warned us against following the tradition of men and exchanging His teaching for doctrine, which He called the commandments of men, because if we do, we worship Him in vain.

      Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. (Mark 7:7-8KJV)
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:32KJV)

      Free from what?

      Free from the limitations of the flesh.

      The teaching of Jesus Christ is the “How To” that frees us from the limitations of the flesh. Without it we remain flesh conscious; under the state of being that Paul called “the natural man.”

      But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor. 2:14KJV)

      Under this state of being we limit ourselves to our human intellect, we debase the scripture to our human understanding and we are therefore unable to receive the knowledge of the God, which is the only way that we can escape the limitations of the flesh.

      The belief in spirit is the rock on which the church of Jesus Christ stands.

      The acceptance of the spirit through faith in the word of Jesus Christ makes us free to accept “the truth” that we do not yet understand, and it also gives us the confidence that a new understanding would be revealed to us by the spirit.

      As Jesus said to Simon Peter; it’s not the flesh that has revealed this unto you, but it’s the Spirit; my Father which is in heaven.

      And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Matthew16:17-18KJV)
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      It’s unmistakably clear that the Bible is of two understandings, one of milk for babes, (SEE Hebrews 5:13-14) the other of meat for those who are “weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breast.” (SEE Isaiah 28:9)

      This theme is repeated throughout the scriptures, used to differentiate between those who are restricted to an understanding obtained through their human understanding, and those who are seeking a higher understanding through the Spirit.

      Though the Bible is written entirely in our earthly language we must realize it’s also about spiritual things which are not earthly. Therefore we can never read the Bible the same way we read the newspaper.

      The prophet Isaiah said:

      For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: (Isaiah 28:10KJV)

      The prophet is alerting us here to the multi-layered nature of the scriptures. Which tells us, not only that we should not deduce from one line of scripture but also that any one misunderstanding will lead to another and then another.

      Without the teaching of Jesus Christ we are unable to understand the scriptures. Our misunderstanding begins with the very first verse, because we do not know what is meant by the heaven and the earth.

      In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Gen. 1:1KJV)


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      Default Re: What is the promise?

      We have all heard the comment that we only have one life so we should live it to the fullest and the fullest in this case means that we should experience all that the physical world has to offer.

      This of course is the world view, but there is another point of view.

      We all know that our present temporal existence will come to end one day, but we who are in Christ believe that our Father has given us the gift of eternal life, and all we need do is discover the way to accept this gift.

      For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16KJV)

      Jesus however has predicted that few of us will find the way, and He was not speaking here of those who are of the world view. He was speaking of those who know that there is a way to life. This clearly means that the way chosen by the vast majority will be the wrong one.

      Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14KJV)

      He has also made it clear that our chance of finding it is directly proportional to our desire to do so, because what ever we desire more, will always stand in the way.

      No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (Matthew 6:24KJV)
      Last edited by Like it is; 08-09-2012 at 11:05 PM.
      Most men take a problem, not to themselves, not into the chambers of their own minds, but to the first directory of persons whom they can consult. VALDIVAR

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