REIncarnation

[Redman]

So after all of that it really isn't evidence of any analysis done to show size type and location of a rail system if at all it's suitable.

So allyuh carry on the ole talk then.

Wake me up when allyuh done.


Later

[snowbird]

Redman..... for the amount of noise and NGOs that were formed over the Smelter issue..... I can't see the Trini government entertaining this type of project....without massive consultation and input (solicited or not)

...But like everything else in T&T ...it is not so much what is proposed as it is ..... who proposes it.

This 50 year division in politics... and the people who support each camp .... is what will always keep T&T ....third world.



for now let's just refer to this opposition based on partisan politics as .... 'The Republican Syndrome'

.... which is ..... "it doesn't matter if our country suffers....as long as we hold our ground..... and not give in to anything the next side proposes.... we good:

[shield_2006]

reds--like Devant eh care bout dat neither--he say he on once it have private sector investment---now--I suspect that private sector investment may really mean capital and the GOTT will have to guarantee returns to attract a firm--unless some brilliant person here can tell me why private capital will rush to this country where the capital cost and ridership skewed in a loss attraction situation?

[Redman]

That sounds like crap snow.
Explain the fact that the US has had a 2 party system longer than us.
they third world?
You keep thinking it's political.

That argument is weak because:
There was no study.
There was no justification
So the concept remains flawed.

Later

[Redman]

reds--like Devant eh care bout dat neither--he say he on once it have private sector investment---now--I suspect that private sector investment may really mean capital and the GOTT will have to guarantee returns to attract a firm--unless some brilliant person here can tell me why private capital will rush to this country where the capital cost and ridership skewed in a loss attraction situation?

Well we all need to mobilize and protest again.

Without justification it's flawed then.
And it flawed now.

Later

[Sirius]

This is what happens when we have people detached from the society reminiscing about how things were 50 years ago. 50 years ago, there weren't so many people trying to get into the cities, via private car OR public transport. 50 years ago, society itself was fundamentally different.

1. Why does the driving public scorn public transport?

You get to town relatively quickly and comfortably in whatever form of mass transit you choose - bus, water taxi, future rail...O.K. great. Now what?

Assuming it is Port of Spain, you arrive at a drab, run down facility -- City Gate. As you exit you find yourself on a wide, difficult to cross street. That is of course, if it does not rain. Otherwise you are stranded for not even God knows how long. You have two options:

Option A:
Walk through a city with poor air flow, inhaling urine and trying not to get knocked down while avoiding sleeping vagrants, hustlers and street vendors who occupy so much of the sidewalk that you inevitably find yourself on the road.

Option B:
Take a maxi or taxi where you are crammed into a small vehicle, usually with the A/C off while you rub shoulders (in the unpleasant literal sense) with a total stranger who may or may not be sweaty and/or yakking on the phone, while the car stops dead in its tracks 2-3 times per block to drop off or pick up someone else.

Note this same calamity must occur getting to the hypothetical station too, not just upon arrival in the capital. This is not a class issue. It's an avoiding a very unpleasant experience issue. Most persons who can avoid it, will avoid it. Doubly so because the same calamity must occur getting from home to the mass transit stop, and the entire process is repeated in reverse in the evening.

2. First make the roads passable

In light of the above, before we even begin to dream of a rail, we need to enhance the road network. The thing is that once the road network issue is addressed, it becomes easy to get to and from the transit hubs. It therefore becomes much more appealing and pleasant to take the public transport in whatever form that may be.

It may well be the case that in a cleaned up system, a rail turns out no more beneficial than an optimized bus service. We would have spent billions of dollars over years upon years for naught. Pelting in a rail before addressing the fundamental issues is short sightedness at its finest.

Ask yourself: Why is the bus service insufficient? A quick look at the Priority Bus Route (PBR) should answer the question. Everyone is on it. Why? The highway is congested, in no small part because of (1) traffic lights on a major high speed artery and (2) the Port of Spain bottleneck. The first solution should therefore be to clear the PBR! How?

3. Common sense solutions in a nation lacking in the common senses

First we look at some basics:

• If you are not public transport, get off the bus route. Talk done. Then get more buses running so we have a regular, reliable schedule.
• Strip the Churchill Roosevelt Highway of its remaining traffic signals. Get this on fast forward. In the meanwhile, we address inner city traffic.
• Most streets in Port of Spain are 3 lanes wide. One for parking, two for driving. In practice however what we have are 2 for parking and one for driving. Enforce the laws, and on main arteries prohibit parking entirely.
• Crack down - hard - on cars stopping dead in their tracks to pick up/drop off passengers. Get those wardens out there and teach people discipline. Make the drivers and their passenger use designated pick-up and drop-off points.
• Crack down on people who park on the curb. It obstructs vision and results in people having to inch and inch to drive across an intersection because they simply cannot see.
• Clear the sidewalks of the vendors, vagrants and hasslers. Make the sidewalk a pleasant place to be and keep the pedestrians off the roads. Put an end to the jaywalking too.

Now let's look at some ways to solve parking congestion and reduce the influx into the capital:

• Offer companies incentives to give workers flexitime and telecommuting options. Tax incentives, perhaps.
• Demolish abandoned buildings and use the land for car parks. Offer incentives as above for businesses to rent spots they can allocate to staff and customers.
• Decentralize. Start with public offices and encourage the private sector to follow suit.

4. Conclusion

Considering the enormous mess our current system is in, the rail is not going to entice many people. Frankly, an attractive rail needs to become accessible in the first place which takes us back to the road network. We need to look at the sources of our problems and tackle those. Not install a rail and then try to beat people into it with a big stick. Our inability as a country to use common sense and actually address issues is why we are in such a mess to begin with.

I should just run for office and done yes.

[shield_2006]

Well we all need to mobilize and protest again.

Without justification it's flawed then.
And it flawed now.

Later

On the other hand if we do it ourselves and we create the employment ad the economic activity redounds to locals the loss position may be offset by the economic growth--just thinking aloud is all.

Sirius you make some valid points but the negative experience can not be the basis for the decision--but I will support your candidacy---unless you planning to turn into a Cadiz or one ah dem kind.

[Redman]

Breddo,
I'm against this BECAUSE the analysis wasn't done.
That's it.

I feel that there are things we can do now that will help.NOW

But unless we have done the investigation we cant say yea or nea beyond opinion.

I say do the research into solving the problem.
See what the best solution is, and act on that.

And when last you see any of that economic activity redound to locals?
UbOT?
SHELL?
AMOCO?
ALNG?

eh?

Later

[snowbird]

That sounds like crap snow.
Explain the fact that the US has had a 2 party system longer than us.
they third world?
You keep thinking it's political.

That argument is weak because:
There was no study.
There was no justification
So the concept remains flawed.

Later

The US was also never in an economic situation like they were these past few years (ever since Obama came into office).... at a time when the country should have been pulling together.... they were pulling apart..... in addition to having ..Repubs. to deal with.... Mr. Obama had to deal with the 'Tea Party' .... full force.....

Think any of these people were thinking about what is best for their country? ...if they were....they would have gotten on side with their President.

[Angie]

And dem fudder mucking teapartyers and repukes really think they can beat Obama in the Elections.

[atma]

The republican party is going to guarantee another 4 years for Obama.They are just voting against him for opposing sake and obama is handling it correctly.He is calling them out on it.The republicans in for a rude awakening if dey feel americans too dostish to see what they are doing.

[mammadon]

This is what happens when we have people detached from the society reminiscing about how things were 50 years ago. 50 years ago, there weren't so many people trying to get into the cities, via private car OR public transport. 50 years ago, society itself was fundamentally different.

1. Why does the driving public scorn public transport?

You get to town relatively quickly and comfortably in whatever form of mass transit you choose - bus, water taxi, future rail...O.K. great. Now what?

Assuming it is Port of Spain, you arrive at a drab, run down facility -- City Gate. As you exit you find yourself on a wide, difficult to cross street. That is of course, if it does not rain. Otherwise you are stranded for not even God knows how long. You have two options:

Option A:
Walk through a city with poor air flow, inhaling urine and trying not to get knocked down while avoiding sleeping vagrants, hustlers and street vendors who occupy so much of the sidewalk that you inevitably find yourself on the road.

Option B:
Take a maxi or taxi where you are crammed into a small vehicle, usually with the A/C off while you rub shoulders (in the unpleasant literal sense) with a total stranger who may or may not be sweaty and/or yakking on the phone, while the car stops dead in its tracks 2-3 times per block to drop off or pick up someone else.

Note this same calamity must occur getting to the hypothetical station too, not just upon arrival in the capital. This is not a class issue. It's an avoiding a very unpleasant experience issue. Most persons who can avoid it, will avoid it. Doubly so because the same calamity must occur getting from home to the mass transit stop, and the entire process is repeated in reverse in the evening.

2. First make the roads passable

In light of the above, before we even begin to dream of a rail, we need to enhance the road network. The thing is that once the road network issue is addressed, it becomes easy to get to and from the transit hubs. It therefore becomes much more appealing and pleasant to take the public transport in whatever form that may be.

It may well be the case that in a cleaned up system, a rail turns out no more beneficial than an optimized bus service. We would have spent billions of dollars over years upon years for naught. Pelting in a rail before addressing the fundamental issues is short sightedness at its finest.

Ask yourself: Why is the bus service insufficient? A quick look at the Priority Bus Route (PBR) should answer the question. Everyone is on it. Why? The highway is congested, in no small part because of (1) traffic lights on a major high speed artery and (2) the Port of Spain bottleneck. The first solution should therefore be to clear the PBR! How?

3. Common sense solutions in a nation lacking in the common senses

First we look at some basics:

• If you are not public transport, get off the bus route. Talk done. Then get more buses running so we have a regular, reliable schedule.
• Strip the Churchill Roosevelt Highway of its remaining traffic signals. Get this on fast forward. In the meanwhile, we address inner city traffic.
• Most streets in Port of Spain are 3 lanes wide. One for parking, two for driving. In practice however what we have are 2 for parking and one for driving. Enforce the laws, and on main arteries prohibit parking entirely.
• Crack down - hard - on cars stopping dead in their tracks to pick up/drop off passengers. Get those wardens out there and teach people discipline. Make the drivers and their passenger use designated pick-up and drop-off points.
• Crack down on people who park on the curb. It obstructs vision and results in people having to inch and inch to drive across an intersection because they simply cannot see.
• Clear the sidewalks of the vendors, vagrants and hasslers. Make the sidewalk a pleasant place to be and keep the pedestrians off the roads. Put an end to the jaywalking too.

Now let's look at some ways to solve parking congestion and reduce the influx into the capital:

• Offer companies incentives to give workers flexitime and telecommuting options. Tax incentives, perhaps.
• Demolish abandoned buildings and use the land for car parks. Offer incentives as above for businesses to rent spots they can allocate to staff and customers.
• Decentralize. Start with public offices and encourage the private sector to follow suit.

4. Conclusion

Considering the enormous mess our current system is in, the rail is not going to entice many people. Frankly, an attractive rail needs to become accessible in the first place which takes us back to the road network. We need to look at the sources of our problems and tackle those. Not install a rail and then try to beat people into it with a big stick. Our inability as a country to use common sense and actually address issues is why we are in such a mess to begin with.

I should just run for office and done yes.

Fair points, but I think our public transport experience is unique to us. In other countries, taxis can be occupied by one person alone. Trains and buses are only crowded in rush hour times (in London at least). Whilst using one's own car has advantages, public transport is not uncomfortable everywhere.

I think we should privatise PTSC, and let there be competition in bus routes.

[Sirius]

Fair points, but I think our public transport experience is unique to us. In other countries, taxis can be occupied by one person alone. Trains and buses are only crowded in rush hour times (in London at least). Whilst using one's own car has advantages, public transport is not uncomfortable everywhere.

I think we should privatise PTSC, and let there be competition in bus routes.

Bingo. Maybe if we made our public transport more comfortable (and efficient!), then people would be less likely to shirk having to use it. Making it more comfortable and efficient however requires a very holistic approach that entails not just the transport mechanism but the transit hubs, but also beautification, cleanups and a crackdown on our road regulations to make the traffic flow the way it is supposed to.

As far as I am concerned, introducing new mass transit mechanisms is pointless unless these basic factors are first addressed.