Teachers in Trinidad & Tobago .. any good?

[letric]

Poser.... I think the challenges teachers face is 'universal'.....classes are too big ..... and the teachers do not have enough time to engage each and every student .... and to meet those individual needs.... as a result.... some students fall by the way side.

In addition to being an instructor and mentor.... teachers are also called upon to be .... psychologist..... social worker ..... parent ..... friend ...... police .... judge and jury. Teachers these days are simply overwhelmed with the demands placed upon them today.... not just by the student and their parents.... but by society as a whole.
When a child does well.... he is a wonderful and brilliant student.
...When the child does not.... it is the teacher and system (or as some who support teachers say... the parents) that has failed him... it is a difficult balancing act....and one that can only work when all of these elements work in tandem.

Classes have always been too big, nothing new. Teachers have been the psychologist, social worker etc., but the
school system does encourage respect. Failure of the child to learn is primarily dependent on the teacher, how the subject is presented, so that enthusiasm and interest are aroused. Parents being the first teachers carry an enormous responsibility in encouraging child's interest in learning. Of course with the parents working they need to spend quality time with child.

[snowbird]

A funny thing about respect.... it has to be earned not demanded.... and the way one earns respect is by first being .... respectful.

Are we sure all teachers are being respectful of their 'charges' ...or is it a case of ....'do as I say and not as I do'.

Do the teachers respect the child's right to be frustrated at times...or is that seen as a sign of 'disrespect'.

When a child acts in an 'anti-social' way.... do the teachers look further than the behavoir, or do they simply make a judgement... that the child is being disrespectful?

for some reason we seem to think there is one fix for everything that ails children .... "just sit down, shut up, and do as you are told" .... maybe teachers ought to spend more time... listening.... and less time dictating.... maybe it is time that teaching (especially in the elementary and secondary years) became a 'dialogue' rather than a monologue....speak with the children... not 'at' them.

[Sirius]

It is high time that we realize that we as a country are no more or less intelligent or capable than any other country. Throw that idea out the window right now. We live in a connected world, and this is an easy way to ground our lofty ideals.

There are many, many great and dedicated teachers in T&T at all levels of education. There are certainly rotten eggs in the bunch but there are many great dedicated educators. Don't blame the teachers. Don't blame the students, either. It's the system that is rotten.

Our school system is, and always has been, geared toward examining and specializing our students. From the tender age of 11, students must sit national entrance exams that could put them in either the most well equipped, elite schools of the nation, the schools of the skylarking riff-raff or somewhere in between. The very names associated with them can have a profound effect on the student's psyche at an extremely impressionable age: Prestige and Junior Secondary, anyone? Even with the shifting to 5 year schools, the stigma remains.

Once in the schools, by form 3, that is around age 14, the students must choose the subjects that will decide the career path of the rest of their lives. At form 5, they once again write exams, O'Levels, which determine if they can later get into a 3 year degree programme by way of 2 prior years A'Level studies. Those that do not go the A'Level route either enter the workforce or enroll in a 4 year degree programme (or 1 year diploma or 2 year associate degree). The system seems to expect that people will know what they want to be at 14 years of age, yet in reality many persons will start one course of degree study and then want to change paths. Of course, they won't have the requisite secondary knowledge by that point because they specialized away from it before they knew what they wanted to do.

There is even more to throw into the picture. Not everyone is cut out for academia. Truthfully, many students presently pursuing degree programmes are ill prepared for such academic studies. We introduced GATE but centered its focus on academic studies and failed to provide proper advisement on whether or not it is the right path for a given person. John D is now part of UTT; UTT being a university. What does this mean for trade education in the long term? Will a university over the long haul be interested in maintaining non-academic programmes? I think not.

Speaking of trades, how many of our secondary schools really provide classes (and school-leaving exams!) on the trades?

What about the welfare of the students? How many of our schools have proper counseling services? How many have ensured that the teachers can do more than just deliver the syllabus? Who picks up on students with special learning needs? Who picks up on those that are troubled at home? Those students who are standing on the edge of that slippery slope where the mindset moves from "I can and I will" to "I can't and I won't"?

Now mix this with our children raising themselves, lucky if they get any guidance from a parental figure, and we have a serious problem on our hands. Want to blame the teachers? Sure, some of them are doing a terrible job, but the blame is misdirected. The real problem is in the system.

[Poser]

It is high time that we realize that we as a country are no more or less intelligent or capable than any other country. Throw that idea out the window right now. We live in a connected world, and this is an easy way to ground our lofty ideals.

There are many, many great and dedicated teachers in T&T at all levels of education. There are certainly rotten eggs in the bunch but there are many great dedicated educators. Don't blame the teachers. Don't blame the students, either. It's the system that is rotten.

Our school system is, and always has been, geared toward examining and specializing our students. From the tender age of 11, students must sit national entrance exams that could put them in either the most well equipped, elite schools of the nation, the schools of the skylarking riff-raff or somewhere in between. The very names associated with them can have a profound effect on the student's psyche at an extremely impressionable age: Prestige and Junior Secondary, anyone? Even with the shifting to 5 year schools, the stigma remains.

Once in the schools, by form 3, that is around age 14, the students must choose the subjects that will decide the career path of the rest of their lives. At form 5, they once again write exams, O'Levels, which determine if they can later get into a 3 year degree programme by way of 2 prior years A'Level studies. Those that do not go the A'Level route either enter the workforce or enroll in a 4 year degree programme (or 1 year diploma or 2 year associate degree). The system seems to expect that people will know what they want to be at 14 years of age, yet in reality many persons will start one course of degree study and then want to change paths. Of course, they won't have the requisite secondary knowledge by that point because they specialized away from it before they knew what they wanted to do.

There is even more to throw into the picture. Not everyone is cut out for academia. Truthfully, many students presently pursuing degree programmes are ill prepared for such academic studies. We introduced GATE but centered its focus on academic studies and failed to provide proper advisement on whether or not it is the right path for a given person. John D is now part of UTT; UTT being a university. What does this mean for trade education in the long term? Will a university over the long haul be interested in maintaining non-academic programmes? I think not.

Speaking of trades, how many of our secondary schools really provide classes (and school-leaving exams!) on the trades?

What about the welfare of the students? How many of our schools have proper counseling services? How many have ensured that the teachers can do more than just deliver the syllabus? Who picks up on students with special learning needs? Who picks up on those that are troubled at home? Those students who are standing on the edge of that slippery slope where the mindset moves from "I can and I will" to "I can't and I won't"?

Now mix this with our children raising themselves, lucky if they get any guidance from a parental figure, and we have a serious problem on our hands. Want to blame the teachers? Sure, some of them are doing a terrible job, but the blame is misdirected. The real problem is in the system.

brilliant post .. well illustrated .. thank you for relating the topic to the system in trinidad and tobago....
tell me something .. why is the private International School is doing so well with their students … is it ... Facilities, Curriculum or Philosophy ..or is it because the children come from different backgrounds

[snowbird]

brilliant post .. well illustrated .. thank you for relating the topic to the system in trinidad and tobago....
tell me something .. why is the private International School is doing so well with their students … is it ... Facilities, Curriculum or Philosophy ..or is it because the children come from different backgrounds

Poser what Sirius described in not unique to T&T.... as a matter of fact my now 'adult' children were caught on the cusp of change when our school system went from what was described ...the focus on academics .... and the streaming system where a child at 13 had to make a decision as to what they wanted to do with the rest of their lives... to the now 'credit system' where the child has his whole high school career to decide what he wants to do later on ... plus we now live in a society that values the trades as much (or more so) than we do academia.
It is all in the mindset of the educators... and look how long it took for us to get our act together.

As to why the children in private schools ....given the same limitations as the public schools do better.

... again it may have to do with the mind set of the administrators / teachers.... in one case because they are given lemons they complain.... in the other case....they make lemonade.

[letric]

A funny thing about respect.... it has to be earned not demanded.... and the way one earns respect is by first being .... respectful.

Are we sure all teachers are being respectful of their 'charges' ...or is it a case of ....'do as I say and not as I do'.

Do the teachers respect the child's right to be frustrated at times...or is that seen as a sign of 'disrespect'.

When a child acts in an 'anti-social' way.... do the teachers look further than the behavoir, or do they simply make a judgement... that the child is being disrespectful?

for some reason we seem to think there is one fix for everything that ails children .... "just sit down, shut up, and do as you are told" .... maybe teachers ought to spend more time... listening.... and less time dictating.... maybe it is time that teaching (especially in the elementary and secondary years) became a 'dialogue' rather than a monologue....speak with the children... not 'at' them.

I agree with the dialogue aspect ...

[Chicabonita]

would you say that teachers in Trinidad have become lazy?

No.

I don’t know ... I am trying to figure out why the teaching profession is in such a disarray.. are they being trained properly to become teachers ?

What exactly makes you think is in such a disarray and what is your concept of being trained properly? Thanks.

[Chicabonita]

agreed!

Sure, there are some who do it for financial reasons jus as the other professions, so why single out teachers?

Vai, are you sure? I hear some people talking about financial reasons for teaching but the truth is that teachers aren't rich or become rich by teaching. As a matter of fact (and based on their duties) they are being underpaid.

[letric]

Vai, are you sure? I hear some people talking about financial reasons for teaching but the truth is that teachers aren't rich or become rich by teaching. As a matter of fact (and based on their duties) they are being underpaid.

Teachers are considered middle class ...

[vaio]

Vai, are you sure? I hear some people talking about financial reasons for teaching but the truth is that teachers aren't rich or become rich by teaching. As a matter of fact (and based on their duties) they are being underpaid.

considering what they were being paid a few years ago, their salary is relatively good now eh

The vacation time is also a big plus to being a teacher - if i had enough patience i woulda been a teacher

[Sirius]

brilliant post .. well illustrated .. thank you for relating the topic to the system in trinidad and tobago....
tell me something .. why is the private International School is doing so well with their students … is it ... Facilities, Curriculum or Philosophy ..or is it because the children come from different backgrounds

There are so many factors to consider here. The international school and other private schools deal with a different demographic to most public schools. We are likely looking at a demographic with smaller family units, higher levels of education, different life values and so forth.

The school curriculum is probably a contributing factor too, for these are students receiving a different structure of education to the private counterparts. They follow the North American system which is less centered around specialization. The school also has better facilities for sure, and a consistent set of activities such as plays, sporting events, projects, etc.

While I have argued that it is the system more than the teachers that is the problem, private schools probably pay a lot more attention to the quality of teachers hired, and the parents may have a greater say in school affairs than a public institution. These are all contributing factors. You get what you pay for, and when parents spend enormous sums of money on their child's schooling, they expect to get a lot in return for it.

Some of those same factors are probably also why the prestige schools stand out amongst public access institutions. We should be looking at what works in these so-called better schools and try adopting some of their upsides to the others.

Teachers are considered middle class ...

Teachers may be considered middle class income earners but not upper middle or upper. Teaching is a hard thankless job and the remuneration is not all that. Most teachers can probably find better paying work if they really wanted to.

[kemist]

There are many, many great and dedicated teachers in T&T at all levels of education. There are certainly rotten eggs in the bunch but there are many great dedicated educators. Don't blame the teachers. Don't blame the students, either. It's the system that is rotten.

Yep, it is the system that is rotten, but that causes a domino effect. I don't think we can actually measure the greatness and dedication (or lack thereof) of our teachers in this system - if it fuels this system, then it's not quite the greatness and dedication that we need as a nation. Unfortunately, teachers have no choice but to adapt to the system.

The fact that almost every secondary school student has a need for extra lessons, tells us that something is seriously wrong with the system. I've also heard of evidence that teachers help to propagate that flaw.

My opinion is that unless a child has a learning disability, extra lessons is not needed.

Every year I've been asking hundreds of 1st year students at uwi, "who took extra lessons at secondary school?" The only ones who do not raise their hands are students from other Caribbean islands, who would tell me that where they came from, extra lessons are virtually unheard of.
Furthermore, almost every student (which equates to scores of students every year) that i have interviewed gave a similar story about instances where the classroom teacher would start a topic and then say that they would finish it at their private classes. So those who do not attend these private classes (which parents have to pay for) get left behind.
I can only speculate on the motives of the teachers for doing that, but i can confidently say that such action is not only unnecessary, but also unethical.

[Sirius]

Kemist any teacher engaging in that sort of practice is certainly being unethical and should be made to face the consequences. Extra lessons should be unheard of, and as you have indicated, the fact that it is so very common indicates something is very wrong.

[Chicabonita]

The issue with extra lessons I believe is partially cultural. Kids are going to extra lessons from a very young age (to pass the infamous S.E.A exam and in this way be able to choose whatever school they want to go) and from the moment they start form 1, they are put in extra lessons EVEN WHEN THEY CLEARLY DO NOT NEED IT.

[Sirius]

When did the extra lessons become commonplace so early in the game Chica? I remember lessons being a commonplace thing when I was in school but around form 4 and form 5...not SEA level...

[kemist]

Sirius- I don't believe there are consequences to face unless parents take a more active role in their child's education. Parents must be made to understand the purpose of extra lessons. One is of course, the student benefits from repetition. In that respect, the purpose of extra lessons is defeated when a teacher decides to cover part of the syllabus in school and the rest at their private lessons' class. And since no parent want their child to fall behind, they simply go with the flow and follow the majority. But they must also monitor what is going on and demand the service that they are paying for. I would further say that extra lessons should only be used for the purpose of repetition of the topics that the student is struggling with; not for the entire syllabus.

Chica- I believe that you believe correctly. I would go on to say that it is more than partially. To students, parents and teachers, it has become 'the way of things'.

On another note, a lot of teachers find themselves in a system where they are under pressure to produce results. The school must do well to maintain their 'reputation' and so, many teachers have to do their part to fit in i.e. train their students to pass exams. I know of quite a few teachers who works feverishly to ensure their students do well. Their dedication to their profession is admirable and at the end, they do their job i.e. the job that the system requires of them - help their students gain their qualifications.

However i cant help but think that all that time, energy and commitment from teachers are being misdirected and focused on just one aspect of developing young minds. Students must be exposed to critical thinking at a young age. Perhaps the notion of what 'qualifications' should entail has to be revised. I don't expect that the system can be changed overnight, but perhaps a good start would be to reintroduce the 'reasoning and logic' section in the o-levels maths paper- so that such skills would have to be included when teachers are training their students to pass exams.

[amzz]

When did the extra lessons become commonplace so early in the game Chica? I remember lessons being a commonplace thing when I was in school but around form 4 and form 5...not SEA level...

It is the reality now for parents who can afford it. Lessons at primary school is as a result of the competition to pass for the prestige schools. There have been calls for the removal of SEA but I can't see these schools taking students based solely on their catchment area. If there were no classifications among these schools and if there were a different assessment system there would be no need for lessons.

[Solachica]

Some children like going 'extra lessons' to go lime. Some don't even really go to the classes.
I only ever took extra classes in std 5 and tht wasn't really extra teaching by my std 5 teacher but tht was for doing practice tests. I never took any extra lessons in secondary sch.

[Chicabonita]

When did the extra lessons become commonplace so early in the game Chica? I remember lessons being a commonplace thing when I was in school but around form 4 and form 5...not SEA level...

A long time now. You see kids as young as 9 or 10 going to extra lessons daily to prepare for SEA exams. It's MADNESS.

[Chicabonita]

On another note, a lot of teachers find themselves in a system where they are under pressure to produce results. The school must do well to maintain their 'reputation' and so, many teachers have to do their part to fit in i.e. train their students to pass exams. I know of quite a few teachers who works feverishly to ensure their students do well. Their dedication to their profession is admirable and at the end, they do their job i.e. the job that the system requires of them - help their students gain their qualifications.

However i cant help but think that all that time, energy and commitment from teachers are being misdirected and focused on just one aspect of developing young minds. Students must be exposed to critical thinking at a young age. Perhaps the notion of what 'qualifications' should entail has to be revised. I don't expect that the system can be changed overnight, but perhaps a good start would be to reintroduce the 'reasoning and logic' section in the o-levels maths paper- so that such skills would have to be included when teachers are training their students to pass exams.

You're so right Kemist. Children are trained to pass exams (critical thinking non-existent!) and teachers are facilitating that because the pressure comes from administration to get results and if those results are not satisfactory, they water down the exams. It's insane. If you pay attention to CXC and CAPE changes in the last few years, you would realize the changes are for the purpose of making it EASIER and EASIER to the student. Spoon feeding.

[Sirius]

The spoon feeding syndrome shows at the tertiary level and ultimately in the workplace.

So here's the big question: Where does one even begin in addressing this gargantuan problem?

[Falcon]

But Chica, if kids dont go extra lessons to compete with their cohort, then they are destined to be disadvantaged because of the very nature of the system. There are few opportunities to recover if you get 'streamed' inappropriately.

Sirius, I agree about the spoon feeding mentality and how it causes problems at the higher levels of academia and early working life.

[amzz]

The spoon feeding syndrome shows at the tertiary level and ultimately in the workplace.

So here's the big question: Where does one even begin in addressing this gargantuan problem?

This is the question that I hope would be asked by the politicians. The opposite of spoon feeding may be the creation of enviroments that would allow students to develop their capacity for problem solving. I think we would all agree that SEA is one of the obstacles here. So maybe start there? What do you think?

[kemist]

The spoon feeding syndrome shows at the tertiary level and ultimately in the workplace.

So here's the big question: Where does one even begin in addressing this gargantuan problem?

Well this can be an entirely new thread.

(I know i'm just pointing out the obvious here but...)Firstly, the causes has to be identified, then solutions can be proposed & tested and finally implemented - that will take some time, which is why it may take a generation for this problem to be solved.

Some of the causes may be obvious, but i think this question warrants an official study to be carried out by education experts to separate facts from opinions - there seems to be many similar and different opinions amongst educators at all levels.

[Trini do]

Aren't teachers paid to do a job...
Why is extra lessons necessary?

Most are in it for the money in my opinion but the attitude/behavior of some of the children sucks bigtime..to the detriment of the ones wishing to learn