What is Islaam?

[Falcon]

The old testament has some brutality in it but those things are not practiced in today's Christianity

don't put any money on that statement Lex. So the fella is a Shi'a then.......well that explains it

[Musa Millington]

The author of that site is from Iran and a former moslem. So far no Islamic scholar has been able to collect the 50 thousand. Check out his debates. The old testament has some brutality in it but those things are not practiced in today's Christianity. And you cannot compare the teachings of blood thirsty Mohammed with that of Jesus Christ.

on't put any money on that statement Lex. So the fella is a Shi'a then.......well that explains it

I could not have said it better Falcon.

And this is why I said that you should read the Prophet's biography and not just take anything and everything from the internet.

Now I will just ask two simple questions to the posters and anyone can answer:

1. The verses that are often quoted to promote Islamophobia are they verses used in the context of actual combat or are they verses that are to be used in an unrestricted manner?

2. Are there verses in the Qur'an where the Muslims have been taught to be just with non-combatants and to be courteous to them?

By the way Guyguy you posted the verse:

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

I suggest you read the verse before it then perhaps you would understand the context of these verses which follow that verse.

[Musa Millington]

As I stated elsewhere, all religious books/doctrines preach the same thing - peace & love, murder & mayhem. I guess what was done to Ghadaffi yesterday was an abundant outpouring of peace & love, or was it murder & mayhem? How many of those people were thinking about the Qu'ran, Allah, or Mohammed while committing such a barbarous act?

Again, you should not use the actions of Muslims as an evidence that Islam promotes such behaviour.

And also, I ask the question, is the "murder and mayhem" addressed to those who engage the Muslims in warfare and combat or is this to be taken in an unrestricted manner?

And this is why I said to read the biography of the Prophet Muhammad.

Also, I just wanted to issue some food for thought.

There are two other reasons why the chameleon argument cannot be used to justify that God has different manifestations.

4. The chameleon is one figure not several figures. Hence, even though it changes colour it is still one figure. Whereas, when one says that Allah manifests himself into man, the holy Ghost, a deer, an elephant etc you are speaking about several figures and not one figure.

5. I remember once I debated with a Hindu and he used the analogy of the sun having rays and that each murti is representative of one of the rays. So I replied to that argument with the following:

That one cannot imagine an entity that is separate from its characteristics. Therefore when the sun has rays it is still one sun that is giving out these rays.

However, when different Murtis are used for Allah's characteristics it is as if one is saying that these characteristics, which have separate images, are used to represent Allah almighty. What follows by that is that Allah's characteristics and attributes are separate from him and are represented by separate entities.

As for Islam, Allah has these attributes and characteristics but these characteristics are not represented by separate entities since Allah possesses them. And the one who possesses something is ascribed to it. Hence, several entities that were conjured into images cannot be ascribed to Allah since Allah is one unique entity.

Furthermore, Allah's characteristics are eternal in nature. Hence to use something temporal to represent something eternal is improper.

An example of what is done is like this:

A man has several characteristics, honesty, anger etc. Of course these characteristics of that person belongs to him.

Now suppose a person were to draw an image representing anger or honesty or love etc is that image the man himself or a manifestation of that man? Or are these attributes something intangible?

[Musa Millington]

Here's a link I found on the net regarding this pedophile.

I have a question. During that time when grown men married girls who hit puberty was this considered as pedophilia according to the Christians, Jews, Muslims, Arabs who were non-Muslims? And is this considered as pedophilia according to Mosaic and early Christian law?

Or is your definition of pedophilia based on your own post-modern perception?

And just to give you a clue, because something is seen as uncivilized or disliked in modern, western society does not make it a standard for mankind.

[kemist]

He is a scholar of the narrations of the Prophet Muhammad. However, in some cases there are weak narrations in his book but there are much fewer than the ones written by Martin Lings and Hykall.

And this book is important in order to view Islam in a holistic fashion. Since the evidences cannot be understood except by looking at how the Prophet himself acted upon them.

I browsed the reading material, but i haven't seen the publisher's or author's notes.
I noticed that all paragraphs seems to be referenced.
I am curious about the original reference(s)
Instead of looking at all those references to find where they got their information from, i am wondering if its correct to assume that ultimately, the source of all references would be the Quran and Hadith?

[lexbarker]

And this is why I said to read the biography of the Prophet Muhammad.

I am not interested in his biography. Even Charles Manson could have a good biography. We are talking about all those goodies in the Koran that you say that we do not understand and yet you cannot explain it. You beating around the bush too much.

[lexbarker]

don't put any money on that statement Lex. So the fella is a Shi'a then.......well that explains it

So because he is a Shi'a he is using a different Koran? The charges are there, maybe you could explain what is the interpretation of those articles that look so vicious to our understanding.

[lexbarker]

I have a question. During that time when grown men married girls who hit puberty was this considered as pedophilia according to the Christians, Jews, Muslims, Arabs who were non-Muslims? And is this considered as pedophilia according to Mosaic and early Christian law?

Or is your definition of pedophilia based on your own post-modern perception?

And just to give you a clue, because something is seen as uncivilized or disliked in modern, western society does not make it a standard for mankind.

If you think going to bed with a very minor to get your kicks off, you are a very, very sick man. It just shows how braind dead you have gotten by this religion.

[kemist]

I have a question. During that time when grown men married girls who hit puberty was this considered as pedophilia according to the Christians, Jews, Muslims, Arabs who were non-Muslims? And is this considered as pedophilia according to Mosaic and early Christian law?

Or is your definition of pedophilia based on your own post-modern perception?

And just to give you a clue, because something is seen as uncivilized or disliked in modern, western society does not make it a standard for mankind.

There seems to be a small discrepancy in the calculation of Aisha's age.

The notion that she was married at 6, and the marriage being consummated at 9, seems to be the most widely accepted amongst muslims and provides ammunition for critics of the religion as seen here:link
In that link the author used social practices of children and quotes from Aisha (not from her diary, but dictated by someone else) to prove the milestone events occurred when she was 6 yrs and 9 yrs old.

By contrast, another author shows how the maths doesn't quit add up: link2
This author puts her at around 15-16yrs at the time of marriage. But this doesn't seem to be accepted by muslims, so i have to ask, what is wrong with the maths here?

[Musa Millington]

I browsed the reading material, but i haven't seen the publisher's or author's notes.
I noticed that all paragraphs seems to be referenced.
I am curious about the original reference(s)
Instead of looking at all those references to find where they got their information from, i am wondering if its correct to assume that ultimately, the source of all references would be the Quran and Hadith?

I can put some of the references he used on this site as I have the original Arabic.

I am not interested in his biography. Even Charles Manson could have a good biography. We are talking about all those goodies in the Koran that you say that we do not understand and yet you cannot explain it. You beating around the bush too much.

That is why I asked this question in an earlier post:

Now I will just ask two simple questions to the posters and anyone can answer:

1. The verses that are often quoted to promote Islamophobia are they verses used in the context of actual combat or are they verses that are to be used in an unrestricted manner?

2. Are there verses in the Qur'an where the Muslims have been taught to be just with non-combatants and to be courteous to them?

I did this to test your understanding of the "goodies" in the Qur'an but it is apparent that you wish not to indulge in that.

So because he is a Shi'a he is using a different Koran? The charges are there, maybe you could explain what is the interpretation of those articles that look so vicious to our understanding.

The Shia believe that what is within our hands is 1/3 of the Qur'an. And yes this have a completely different interpretation based upon false quotations and spurious sources.

If you think going to bed with a very minor to get your kicks off, you are a very, very sick man. It just shows how braind dead you have gotten by this religion.

This is simply a red-herring to run away from the following question which I posed:

I have a question. During that time when grown men married girls who hit puberty was this considered as pedophilia according to the Christians, Jews, Muslims, Arabs who were non-Muslims? And is this considered as pedophilia according to Mosaic and early Christian law?

Or is your definition of pedophilia based on your own post-modern perception?

And just to give you a clue, because something is seen as uncivilized or disliked in modern, western society does not make it a standard for mankind.

I will give you some food for thought. According to Mosaic and Islamic law once someone has reached puberty they are considered as adults.

There seems to be a small discrepancy in the calculation of Aisha's age.

The notion that she was married at 6, and the marriage being consummated at 9, seems to be the most widely accepted amongst muslims and provides ammunition for critics of the religion as seen here:link
In that link the author used social practices of children and quotes from Aisha (not from her diary, but dictated by someone else) to prove the milestone events occurred when she was 6 yrs and 9 yrs old.

By contrast, another author shows how the maths doesn't quit add up: link2
This author puts her at around 15-16yrs at the time of marriage. But this doesn't seem to be accepted by muslims, so i have to ask, what is wrong with the maths here?

She got married at six and the marriage was consummated when she reached puberty at 9.

[lexbarker]

I can put some of the references he used on this site as I have the original Arabic.



That is why I asked this question in an earlier post:

Now I will just ask two simple questions to the posters and anyone can answer:



I did this to test your understanding of the "goodies" in the Qur'an but it is apparent that you wish not to indulge in that.



The Shia believe that what is within our hands is 1/3 of the Qur'an. And yes this have a completely different interpretation based upon false quotations and spurious sources.



This is simply a red-herring to run away from the following question which I posed:


I will give you some food for thought. According to Mosaic and Islamic law once someone has reached puberty they are considered as adults.


She got married at six and the marriage was consummated when she reached puberty at 9.

You are still beating around the bush. Then are these passages not there in the Sunni Koran? And what are the false quotatiions? spurious sources?
Would you marry off your 9 year old daughter to an adult?

[lexbarker]

. Richard Dawkins on Islam.
.

[lexbarker]

.Pat Condell "About Islam"
.

[lexbarker]

Ex Muslim lady on Islam. Musa, Is she lying?
.

[shield_2006]

[Musa Millington]

Lex, if you wish to find out about something should you not go to the authorities in that subject? Who is

Richard and Pat and some ex-Muslim lady to even open their mouths about Islam??

And in most cases many of them know about customs Muslims practice which are opposed to Islam rather than the legislation. And this is the same in Trinidad. I will give you an example:

I asked someone who apostated from Islam what is the meaning of La Ilaha Ill Allah (and these words are the foundation of Islam) she said she never knew!!

Another one said no creator except Allah!!

When it means that there is nothing worshipped in truth except Allah i.e worshipping other than the creator of the heavens and the earth is worship in falsehood.

Hence, I suggest that if you are putting videos on Islam to get videos of those who are seen as authorities on the subject.

[lexbarker]

Lex, if you wish to find out about something should you not go to the authorities in that subject? Who is

Richard and Pat and some ex-Muslim lady to even open their mouths about Islam??

And in most cases many of them know about customs Muslims practice which are opposed to Islam rather than the legislation. And this is the same in Trinidad. I will give you an example:

I asked someone who apostated from Islam what is the meaning of La Ilaha Ill Allah (and these words are the foundation of Islam) she said she never knew!!

Another one said no creator except Allah!!

When it means that there is nothing worshipped in truth except Allah i.e worshipping other than the creator of the heavens and the earth is worship in falsehood.

Hence, I suggest that if you are putting videos on Islam to get videos of those who are seen as authorities on the subject.

You don't have to be a chef to know 'good' food. You like it or you don't. The end result is what you see. Keep beating the bush man.

From a former Terrorist.

[Musa Millington]

Lex, again you have not found the speech of any person who has authority in Islam. Rather, you found a former terrorist who took many of the verses in a general, unrestricted context and therefore suscribed to the ideologies he ascribed to.

Shaikh Muqbil, may Allah have mercy on him, said: "The way of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah is to join between the evidences to gain a holistic understanding."

In any case, have a look at this website, and this goes for guy guy also and after you have read all the articles by these known and respected authorities in Islamic scholarship then draw your conclusions:

http://www.islamagainstextremism.com/

Secondly, religion is not based upon your fancies and tastes.

Thirdly look at this article:

http://www.islamagainstextremism.com...ra-zionist.cfm

And this conforms Falcon's statement:

The old testament has some brutality in it but those things are not practiced in today's Christianity


don't put any money on that statement Lex. So the fella is a Shi'a then.......well that explains it

[guyguy]

Musa,
Rather than going to the round-about by Cross Crossing and getting my oysters, I went into the mangrove at the Creek and got them directly from the source. Thus, I knew where my supply of oysters was coming from since I got them myself versus not knowing where the oysterman got his supply. Similarly, in order to get the information, go to the source, Qu'ran, Bible, Vedas, etc., to get the information rather than someone who claims to be an expert. Even experts have been proven to be wrong. Wasn't it experts of old that insisted that the earth was flat?

[draja]

She got married at six and the marriage was consummated when she reached puberty at 9.

I hear tell that she did not have her first menstrual cycle at that age.

…..because something is seen as uncivilized or disliked in modern, western society does not make it a standard for mankind.

So, you in your infinite wisdom oh follower of your illustrious “prophet” would give your 6 year old daughter or sister to a fifty something year old man in marriage?

More from Silas:
http://answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm

Musa, Be sure to read Appendix 3

A child molestor, pedophile, sex preditor, that has turned millions of people into evil barbaric killers.
Kill a non-believer and you shall be rewarded with lots of young "virgins" in heaven.

Ah wunder wah happen. You still arong boi? Dem "virgins" up dey mus be too old fuh yuh nah. Six and under is yuh age limit or wah. Dais accordin to yuh prophet eh.

[shield_2006]

I think you all are equating the behavior of people with an idea and concluding the idea is bad--in that event the failings of all men would have declared all religion dysfunctional millennium aback--just a thought.

[Muslim_Chick]

o lawd @ OP

[Sirius]

I think you all are equating the behavior of people with an idea and concluding the idea is bad--in that event the failings of all men would have declared all religion dysfunctional millennium aback--just a thought.

Yes, but it should also be noted that the religions themselves are quite dated. Just look at the kinds of analogies and behaviours depicted in them. They are old teachings for an era gone by...and dangerous tools in the hands of dogmatic thinkers...

[lexbarker]

Lex, again you have not found the speech of any person who has authority in Islam. Rather, you found a former terrorist who took many of the verses in a general, unrestricted context and therefore suscribed to the ideologies he ascribed to.

Shaikh Muqbil, may Allah have mercy on him, said: "The way of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah is to join between the evidences to gain a holistic understanding."

In any case, have a look at this website, and this goes for guy guy also and after you have read all the articles by these known and respected authorities in Islamic scholarship then draw your conclusions:

http://www.islamagainstextremism.com/

Secondly, religion is not based upon your fancies and tastes.

Thirdly look at this article:

http://www.islamagainstextremism.com...ra-zionist.cfm

And this conforms Falcon's statement:

Musa, the difference with these crimes is that they were done on a personal basis for whatever crazy or illegal reasons, the crimes by Islamists are done in the name of Allah and sanctioned by the Koran.

[lexbarker]

you have not found the speech of any person who has authority in Islam.

I have found some specialists: