Lip service to our culture

[Chicabonita]

you should try Skid Neveley Chica, i think they are great as well!

Yes, they're good!!

[Sirius]

"The stage is in front of us
Time tuh get delirious
mash it up, stamp on it
prance on it
we taking advantage"

How do you market that time, monetary-seeking, and place specific piece of garbage, to the world at large?

Unless you feel that "all the world is a stage".

You continue to keep your posts hung up on one specific subset of what our musicians produce. Why are you ignoring all the other examples I keep raising?

[Amelia]

"The stage is in front of us
Time tuh get delirious
mash it up, stamp on it
prance on it
we taking advantage"

How do you market that time, monetary-seeking, and place specific piece of garbage, to the world at large?

Unless you feel that "all the world is a stage".

Are u kidding me? Have u listened to anything by Britney Spears? There's popular garbage all over the place.

[Falcon]

Mainstream garbage has an inherent advantage over breakthrough garbage

[bigzack]

Are u kidding me? Have u listened to anything by Britney Spears? There's popular garbage all over the place.

BritneyPaul luck ent MachelPaul luck.

[bigzack]

You continue to keep your posts hung up on one specific subset of what our musicians produce. Why are you ignoring all the other examples I keep raising?

Ah man win $2,000,000.00 fuh singing and presenting ah song call "Advantage".

Here is your argument.

But why should any given genre be culture? A genre of music is just personal preference and in the case of soca, it's very much a seasonal one on top of that. What is wrong here is not that we ignore our culture but that we don't support our artists. I have a problem with the fact that we have so many talented artists - across genres - but because our local music industry is so carnival-centric we stifle our own talent.

That said, I do agree that in the same manner as Jamaica has been able to push Dancehall into a money making music industry recognized around the world, we should strive to do the same with Soca...but the problem is not the stations alone not playing the material, it's a problem of the industry itself sitting on its backside once carnival is over.

Yuh saying Jamaica has been able to push Dancehall. Jamaica private entepreneurs, or the Jamaican government.

Yuh claiming the following: "but because our local music industry is so carnival-centric we stifle our own talent."

Which sector of our local music industry should be exposing our own talent? Private entrepreneurs, or the Trinidad and Tobago government?

Are you aware of the efforts by Rawlston Charles of Fulton Street, Brooklyn, JW Records of Church Street, Brooklyn, and a Vincentian fella call Straker, also of Brooklyn, to push Soca music.

You need a major record label to push soca music. Do not feel that many of them did not try.

Would you invest money in a recording company, solely devoted to pushing what is passing for soca music today.

I rather pin thousands of US $100 BILLS to mih jacket and pants, and walk up Nelson Street at midnight.

Ah stand ah better chance of survival.

[Sirius]

Very interesting that you quote me (rightfully) as stating, "but because our local music industry is so carnival-centric we stifle our own talent." and then go on to say (strangely), "You need a major record label to push soca music. Do not feel that many of them did not try.".

Soca is highly tied to carnival. Therefore, your response to me simply does not follow the point that was made.

I went so far as to point out artists such as Orange Sky and Skid Neveley, but alas you seem to be stuck in this carnival frame of mind. We need to promote our OTHER artists too. OTHER.

[Chicabonita]

I went so far as to point out artists such as Orange Sky and Skid Neveley, but alas you seem to be stuck in this carnival frame of mind. We need to promote our OTHER artists too. OTHER.

Amen!

[shield_2006]

is till doh get it----is it about local music keeping the interest of locals ---or about marketing our music to the world---ah confused---because dem is two separate issues

[Sirius]

It's both actually - why must the two be mutually exclusive? I actually used the two examples I did because they have done pretty well on the local scene while at the same time having a sound that can be appreciated beyond our shores.

We have two options. We can encourage a more comprehensive industry which both exposes our artists to the world and brings in revenue to the country, or we can sit on our behinds and let foreign economies discover them off Youtube and the like and rake in the money that could have been ours.

[bigzack]

Very interesting that you quote me (rightfully) as stating, "but because our local music industry is so carnival-centric we stifle our own talent." and then go on to say (strangely), "You need a major record label to push soca music. Do not feel that many of them did not try.".

Soca is highly tied to carnival. Therefore, your response to me simply does not follow the point that was made.

I went so far as to point out artists such as Orange Sky and Skid Neveley, but alas you seem to be stuck in this carnival frame of mind. We need to promote our OTHER artists too. OTHER.

And ah trying tuh find out from yuh, who the WE is -- private entrepreneurs or the government of Trinidad and Tobago.

But yuh not touching that wun at all.

Baghwansingh does sell 10 foot poles yuh know.

But here is where yuh tie yuhself up in ah little, tight coocoon, and ah hope that yuh get out after ah show yuh this point.

Soca is highly tied to carnival. Therefore, your response to me simply does not follow the point that was made.

Since soca is highly tied tuh carnival, it should be making money year round.

http://www.trinijunglejuice.com/carnivalcalendar.html

Dec 4-Jan 1, 2011 Monserratt
Dec 25-Jan 1, 2011 St. Kitts
Dec 25-Jan 1, 2011 St.Croix (V.I)
Dec 26 & Jan 1, 2011 Bahamas (Junkanoo)
Jan 8-Mar 13th, 2011
Curaçao Carnival (Fudeka)

Feb 23, 2011
Guyana (Mashramani)

Mar 5-8, 2011
Panama City, Panama

Mar 5-8, 2011
Barranquilla, Colombia

Mar 7-8, 2011
Aruba

Mar 7-8, 2011 Trinidad & Tobago

Mar 7-8, 2011 Dominica

Apr 25-May 2, 2011 St. Maarten

Apr 27-May 1, 2011 Bacchanal Jamaica

May 4-7, 2011 St. Thomas (V.I)

May 4-8, 2011 Cayman Islands (Batabano)

May, 2011 Tampa, FL
May, 2011 Hunduras
May, 2011 Pt. Fortin Borough Day

May 22-24, 2011 Bermuda (Junkanoo)

May 27-30, 2011 Georgia Carnival (Dekalb)
May 27-30, 2011 Atlanta, GA
May 27-30, 2011 Orlando, FL

May 28-29, 2011 San Francisco, CA
June 10-13, 2011 Berlin (Germany)

June, 2011 Calgary (Carifest), AB, Canada

June, 2011 Philadelphia, PA
June, 2011 Tampa Bay, FL
June, 2011 West Palm Beach, FL
June 23-26, 2011 Washington DC

June 24-Jul 5, 2011 St. Vincent & The Grenadines

July, 2011 St. John (V.I)
June 29-July 4, 2011 Houston, TX (Caribfest)
July, 2011 Montreal, Canada (Carifest)
July, 2011 Baltimore Carnival (Maryland)
July, 2011 St. Lucia

July, 2011 Jersey City, NJ

July 23-24, 2011 Vancouver, BC

July 29-30, 2011 Rotterdam (Zomer Carnival)

July 29-31, 2011 Toronto (Caribana)
Jul 23-Aug 2, 2011 Antigua
Jul 28- Aug 7, 2011 Anguilla Summer Festival
Jul 29-Aug 3, 2011 Barbados (Crop Over)
Aug, 2011 Tortola Carnival (BVI)

Aug, 2011 Nevis (Culturama)
Aug, 2011 Norfolk, Virginia
Aug 5-6-, 2011 Hamilton, Canada
Aug 5-6-, 2011 Edmonton (Cariwest)
Aug 5-6-, 2011 Detroit, MI
Aug, 2011 Hartford (Connecticut)
Aug, 2011 Ottawa (Caribe-Expo)
Aug 5-9, 2011 Grenada (Spice Mas)
Aug 19-20, 2011 Chicago, IL (Carifete)
Aug, 2011 Boston, MA
Aug 26-29, 2011 Notting Hill (London, UK)
Sep 1-5, 2011 New York (Labor Day)
Oct 6-10, 2011 Miami Carnival, FL
Oct 21-23, 2011 Jacksonville, FL
Nov, 2011 Cayman Pirates Week

[bigzack]

I went so far as to point out artists such as Orange Sky and Skid Neveley, but alas you seem to be stuck in this carnival frame of mind. We need to promote our OTHER artists too. OTHER.

I never hear bout Orange Sky until the Pee Pee take them to India.

And Skid Neveley must have never slipped on ah banana peel. Who de hell is he, she, it, shim, or them?

[Sirius]

Zack you know very well that I'm talking about soca being tied to T&T carnival. If it was tied to worldwide carnival we would not be having this discussion so stop squirming and try to keep up.

WE = T&T as a whole. I did not single out government or entrepreneurs because hey - they both have a part to play.

If you have idea who I am talking about then do some research. The internet makes it plenty easy enough. Hear what - familiarize yourself with some of our non-carnival talent and then come back and we'll talk. I'm still waiting to hear why we should not be promoting our (T&T) other non-carnival-centric artists but you've been twisting and turning about 1950's calypso, the ills of Jamaican music and soca instead.

[bigzack]

I'm still waiting to hear why we should not be promoting our (T&T) other non-carnival-centric artists but you've been twisting and turning about 1950's calypso, the ills of Jamaican music and soca instead.

Buh nobody ent stopping you from promoting Orange Sky and Skid Row Neveley.

[Poser]

allyu say "highly tied to carnival" ... it should be highly tied to Caribbean carnival .. the other carnivals around the world are limited by budgets ... and cannot afford the big name acts .. that is why Allison Hinds and Sennelle Demptser can still be moving along the circuit making money .. they are one man acts ... with tracks ... except for Toronto .. New York and Notting Hill .. the other carnivals are on very limited budgets .. because of the lack of grant money ..

so we can hire both of them for less than $2,000 US a show .. while Machel is $40,000 US to $50,000 US a show … last year Faye Anne was called up by Atlanta carnival to perform .. because she had a popular tune and won Soca Monarch etc… she was given a price and she said she wanted more than twice what was offered and she wanted Bunji and the Aslyum band to aslo perform .. .. the promoter said forget it .. three weeks later she called the promoter to ask if the offer was still on the table .. he said forget it …

I have hitched my ride on Soca because it attracts more people to the show over calypso .. I rather listen to calypso … but if I am investing money to put on a show Karen Asche and Chalkdust will not sell 200 tickets .. whereas .. Deestra on tracks will sell 500 easy …

So the economics is just not there to push the bigger popular acts .. they have to do like Machel and promote his own show .. with his own money and get a big payback..

[Fumas]

Very interesting that you quote me (rightfully) as stating, "but because our local music industry is so carnival-centric we stifle our own talent." and then go on to say (strangely), "You need a major record label to push soca music. Do not feel that many of them did not try.".

Soca is highly tied to carnival. Therefore, your response to me simply does not follow the point that was made.

I went so far as to point out artists such as Orange Sky and Skid Neveley, but alas you seem to be stuck in this carnival frame of mind. We need to promote our OTHER artists too. OTHER.

I kinda agree with you but you guys want to run before you can walk. Most of the rock bands that i seen try to promote themselves out of Trinidad, where they should try to promote/build a market within it.

[Sirius]

I kinda agree with you but you guys want to run before you can walk. Most of the rock bands that i seen try to promote themselves out of Trinidad, where they should try to promote/build a market within it.

I can say with a fair degree of certainty that one of the reasons the rock acts try to promote themselves out of Trinidad is because outside of small shows, the local industry pretty much ignores them. We have the ability to infuse the borderless genre of rock with our own personal touch: listen to Skid Nevely for example and how they incorporated the pan into rock music.

But really, how can a band really make it on the international stage if they can't make it on their local home stage? Once at the point of small gigs, our acts probably stand a better chance at success by being YouTube artists than they do trying to get a local record deal.

[The Expatriate]

An old story but still a timely and interesting topic. I'm tempted to say a thing a two in spite of all the tangents that could have begun several off shoot threads or sidebars.

In short. "Making it" internationally has as much to do with money; or does the act command a large enough draw or audience to interest a label in marketing them (in all forms, radio, TV, shows, print, whatever) as it does with anything else. Whatever variables you throw in there, the bottom line is money. If the act is unable to pull in the money for the label they will be dropped from the label or never signed or given the time of day.

Does soca as a genre as opposed to individual artists like Machel, command any significant audience internationally? As a genre, no. It's very much niche specific and that niche is small. If you have a hit you'll get offers from promoters to do live shows outside of T&T for their carnivals or carnival, West Indian type events, etc. but after that, forget it.

There is no major audience to support soca internationally, and support it totally, meaning at any point in time and make a draw. For example, if Ronnie McIntosh who has several hits, were to try and do a show outside Trini, how much do you think he will make? Or how many tickets do you think he will sell? This is what labels look at. It's a numbers and money game. Yes, commercialism is part and parcel of it.

There is no form of musicianship I know of higher than classical or jazz (the cream of calypsos too, compositionwise) however that may be measured; is there an audience for these markets? Yes, but like calypso or soca they are miniscule, so major labels stay clear of these things. There's no money it in for them and therefore for them, not worth it.

Besides that, most soca nowadays is crap, IMHO, which doesn't help the situation. If even local Trini people can't dig it, what do you think is the possibility of outsiders digging it? When soca was hot they could not understand or appreciate it, far less for much of the crapola of today.

Re: Orange Sky. A year or two ago, the second label that signed them had them on the road for almost a year here in the US. They tried the old school go out and play the US and win fans gamble. When last have you heard anything from the Sky? And why do you think that is? It's not that the music is not good, but again, this is about commercialism and the Sky never made it big enough to be household names. Personally I don't care because I know that the commercial value labels put on artists has nothing to do whatsoever with the integrity or real value or worth of the music.

[The Expatriate]

Re: Rock: What kind of market is there for rock in Trinidad? Or actually any kind of music? I have no idea what kind of music Trinidadians taken as a group are interested in. I think the tastes vary but to say that they generally, or a majority core of them are into any specific genre would be a fallacy.

I'll say it plainly, one should take into account that many Trinidadians are quite superficial. I mean period. Straight talk. There is not much substance to many of them, but don't tell any of them that. Anyway, one minute it's one thing with them another minute it's that. I should know because I am a Trini too, and I have an absolute obsession with them. As far as being hardcore patriots, being die hard fans of their music, etc. I don't know about that. Such people are few and far between. Me? You could play soca and calypso for me 24/7, 365 days a year and steelband too, but that is me.

My t'ing is first and it ent have nuttin' better dan my t'ing. I say dat yet I could still appreciate udder people t'ing, but my t'ing is first.

[Fumas]

I can say with a fair degree of certainty that one of the reasons the rock acts try to promote themselves out of Trinidad is because outside of small shows, the local industry pretty much ignores them. We have the ability to infuse the borderless genre of rock with our own personal touch: listen to Skid Nevely for example and how they incorporated the pan into rock music.

But really, how can a band really make it on the international stage if they can't make it on their local home stage? Once at the point of small gigs, our acts probably stand a better chance at success by being YouTube artists than they do trying to get a local record deal.

I'm not talking about a local band becoming part of some european metal tour or whatever, i'm talking about the fact how quickly some of these bands want to ditch Trinidad for some perceived notion that anything outside Soca and other hang ups won't work (like no record contracts)or worse that they get perceived as some soca band by the very people they want to emulate(which seems to be a disturbing mentality all caribbean based rock bands have). Since i've been aware about the rock scene in trinidad its grown far beyond it was over a decade ago so that indicates there is an audience out there for it or the local "rawk"music couldn't possible have gotten to the stage it has in TNT to where it is.

And the you tube thing hasn't really worked has it?
As for the record companies, who really needs them. I'm afraid its the same wherever you may go, here in the UK there are plenty of metal bands unsigned, some of them quite good but the record companies are intrested in this X factor or that idol and that you haveto be related or know someone in the biz to get signed up. it isn't the good old dream of throwing tvs off the windows and spending other peoples money and women(and these days,guys) and then actually recording your music. Those days are long gone. Today there's an even playing field in promotion, but like anything its how you do it. There really need to be some centralised operation that anyone can find on the web that includes ALL the alternative music of our country that has links/samples to the music. When you guys are doing a gig promote it on youtube and stream it live. In that regard many people not only trinis will know about the scene. The south americans manage to do it and that was at a time when rock/metal wasn't popular in what country they happened to belong in but a local band from there was unheard of. now you have all the big bands going to tour there as well as bands like Seputura, Executer,and etc being known throughout the world.

[The Expatriate]

[snowbird]

..... And the you tube thing hasn't really worked has it? .....




there are a few people who may ...beg to differ

http://977music.com/blog/2010/03/mus...ed-on-youtube/

[The Expatriate]

Well, I found this. Don't know who most of these cats are, I must say and frankly, it takes more than being able to write and perform a song or play an instrument to warrant "more recognition." There are only a zillion other people who can do that. You material has to stand out. It has to rise above the rest or you will get about as much recognition as you deserve. However much that may be.