Lip service to our culture

[Amelia]

Passing through the avenue one evening just before carnival, i was inundated with soca blasting from speaker boxes and various iconic displays decorating every available wall and electrical pole.

We were ready for it. The vibe was one of anticipation and barely restrained excitement. We iz trinis.

Passing through this aftrenoon and i hear dancehall. Mash brakes.

Carnival done so we turn Jamaican?
Same thing with the radio stations that blasting calypso and soca for weeks leading up to carnival. If i want to hear soca now I hadda buy a CD.

By no means am I saying that to qualify as a true trini u have to listen to soca 24/7. I am saying that are we really interested in the future and development of the part of our culture that is carnival? Or have we pimped it out to be used as cheap excuse for businessmen to buss price on we head.

$15.00 for a small bottle of water in the fete or pay 600.00 and up to attend the fete for 'free' drinks.

$2000+ for costumes that fall apart before u even reach the road on carnival monday. And yet I know ppl who already have their downpayment for next year's costumes put away. They ent even know what the costume look like, they know they playing in x band. And worse, there's a fight up to get into the band! U need a hook up to get a costume. And I mean, I know its an old topic, but I must say... really? 2500.00 for that?

Yes, every bar and lounge blasting soca, and then come the week after carnival is hip hop and dance hall and alternative.

Is this what carnival is?

[Solachica]

I cud not wait to hear an end to the constant soca music on the radio.

[amzz]

.

Is this what carnival is?

apparently

[BW]

culture is descriptive, not proscriptive

there is nothing set in stone as 'trini'. dancehall is just as much culture as soca.

[bigzack]

Passing through the avenue one evening just before carnival, i was inundated with soca blasting from speaker boxes and various iconic displays decorating every available wall and electrical pole.

Ah sorry, but what passing fuh soca now is very irritable.

I wish that dey did stop playing soca right after leywah.

[amzz]

in other words.. we still searching for we own ting?

culture is descriptive, not proscriptive

there is nothing set in stone as 'trini'. dancehall is just as much culture as soca.

[BW]

in other words.. we still searching for we own ting?

all culture is fluid.

[Sirius]

To be honest I listen to the stations that play pop and rock music so a sudden lack of soca does not affect me one way or the other. It's just not my thing.

But why should any given genre be culture? A genre of music is just personal preference and in the case of soca, it's very much a seasonal one on top of that. What is wrong here is not that we ignore our culture but that we don't support our artists. I have a problem with the fact that we have so many talented artists - across genres - but because our local music industry is so carnival-centric we stifle our own talent.

That said, I do agree that in the same manner as Jamaica has been able to push Dancehall into a money making music industry recognized around the world, we should strive to do the same with Soca...but the problem is not the stations alone not playing the material, it's a problem of the industry itself sitting on its backside once carnival is over.

[bigzack]

That said, I do agree that in the same manner as Jamaica has been able to push Dancehall into a money making music industry recognized around the world, we should strive to do the same with Soca...but the problem is not the stations alone not playing the material, it's a problem of the industry itself sitting on its backside once carnival is over.

Take away the drugs (I am ah ganja planter) the anti-gay sentiments (boom bye bye in ah battie bwoy head), the gang violence (Mavado and Vybz Cartel with dey Gully vs Gaza feud), the bad bwoy and shotta mentality, and the "poom poom" shorts seen at the passa passa chupidness, and see how far Dancehall will reach.

[edyle]

Maybe part of the problem is that carnival has moved away from the people and become some sort of industry directed at certain audiences. In particular, it has become a part tourist thing.

What makes carnival good is variety. For me the part I like is the calypsoes. Some people like the big costume displays. Some people like the Jouvert. Some people like the street party.

As for soca? I think soca is more universal than carnival or even the Caribbean.
Calypso on the other hand, I would say, is the name we give to T&T local folksong. A typical calypso might not be understood by a foreigner. It may refer to local names of persons or events. As that local flavour becomes diluted by attemts to be more universal, carnival loses some connection to the local people.

[Sirius]

Take away the drugs (I am ah ganja planter) the anti-gay sentiments (boom bye bye in ah battie bwoy head), the gang violence (Mavado and Vybz Cartel with dey Gully vs Gaza feud), the bad bwoy and shotta mentality, and the "poom poom" shorts seen at the passa passa chupidness, and see how far Dancehall will reach.

A genre is a style of music. The contents put into it are another matter entirely. If we have local talent then why shouldn't our artists get the support they deserve? As for the lyrics, we don't have to follow Jamaica's example - I am simply saying that if they can do it then so can we. Our audience will decide what calibre of artists emerge which is no different to any other country's industry - studios will sign on the artists that will make them money.

I also believe there is an audience for other genres - for instance we have a fair amount of rock fans in T&T but those artists are underground for the most part. Unfortunately what will happen is with self-produced artists using such media as YouTube, foreign economies will discover them and whisk them away from our shores while we turn our backs.

[bigzack]

A genre is a style of music. The contents put into it are another matter entirely.

Then come up with something called "Dancehall Instrumental" (no lyrics, only music), and see how far it will reach.

[Sirius]

Then come up with something called "Dancehall Instrumental" (no lyrics, only music), and see how far it will reach.

Hate to break it to you but that already exists. There are instrumentals to just about every genre you can think of and with the internet it's exceedingly easy to find them. Regardless, the argument is pointless because whatever our views on the lyrical content, the point being made is that Jamaica was able to market itself. Why can't we?

[bigzack]

Regardless, the argument is pointless because whatever our views on the lyrical content, the point being made is that Jamaica was able to market itself. Why can't we?

Because present day Jamaican music is a package deal.

It comes with poom poom sharts, lewd and suggestive dancing, passa passa, ganja and other drugs, cussing, and gang violence.

Is really "Caribbean Rap" music, complete with the debauchery that accompanies American rap music.

And just like Rap music does not appeal to Middle and Upper class Americans, Dancehall music does not appeal to middle and upper class Jamaicans.

In fact, many downtown Kingstonians detested calypso because uptown Kingstonians embraced it.

[Sirius]

Somehow that doesn't seem to tell me why we here in TRINIDAD cannot market our own talent.

[bigzack]

Somehow that doesn't seem to tell me why we here in TRINIDAD cannot market our own talent.

Well forget Calypso.

Calypso was king back in the 50s.

Harry Belafonte, Louis Farrakhan, Robert Mitchum and Maya Angelou all were calypso singers.

The first album to sell ah million copies was a calypso album by Harry Belafonte.

We cyar get two bite at the apple.

And I prefer to sell rotten fig, than push chupidness like Advantage and Defend the Flag.

[Sirius]

I'm not trying to suggest we promote calypso internationally. Edyle has stated quite well why that would not be a worthwhile pursuit.

But I still don't see why we should not try to promote our other local artists. Soca is something that can be marketed internationally much as Jamaica did with reggae and dancehall - especially when you have tourists who hear the soca while on vacation on our shores. Within T&T we have rock bands who add their own local and/or regional flavor to an international favorite genre. Look for example at Orange Sky who mix reggae with rock and Skid Neveley who use a steel pan in rock music. They both also have a sound that can reach far beyond our shores and are but two of the more popular examples.

To put down our local untapped musical talent because of shortfalls in the lyrics of some Jamaican artists is frankly ridiculous.

[shield_2006]

The OP speaks to something much more fundamental than marketing of music. It speaks to a kind of disdain for anything local and the brainwashing of generations in the pursuit of profit. The MEDIA has a trite a foolish explanation---that is what the people want---when they in fact generate the response---and I believe there is a statement somewhere about people not having a culture and the effects of that----after all--- is there not a thread about then whoesale importation of --what is it--goth culture now.

WE CONTINUE TO FAIL TO DEFINE THE SOCIETY WE WANT FOR OURSELVES ON THE ALTAR OF----WELL WHAT YUH GO DO.

[bigzack]

To put down our local untapped musical talent because of shortfalls in the lyrics of some Jamaican artists is frankly ridiculous.

The first time that Arrow ever sang "Hot, Hot, Hot" was at a show called "Summer in the Park" around 1983 or 1984 (not too certain of the exact date) on the grounds of the Washington Monument in Washington, DC. I was right dey.

"Hot, hot, hot" never made it internationally until Buster Poindexter took it up and ran with it.

"Who let the dogs out" never became a hit until the Baja Men sang it, and it became a staple at major league baseball stadiums across the USA.

"Turn me on" by Kevin Little, never became a hit, until 2 years after he first sang it at Vincy Carnival, and then 6 months later at Trinidad carnival.

"Rum and cocoa cola" never became a hit until the Andrews Sisters sang it.

Bob Marley might have still been a backup studio singer for calypsonians like Lord Brynner, if Eric Clapton did not take "I shot the Sherriff", and made it an international hit.

Machel Montano had been signed tuh some major recording label, only to flop.

There is a distinct reason why ethnic based musical genres have a difficult time making it internationally. If it was that easy, Soukous and the hundreds of African music genres that existed before any other music, would have made it on the world stage.

If Reggae made it, that is not because of any major marketing strategy. It is because Reggae is more American than calypso, soca, or bossa nova, that came directly from Africa.

Yuh know how the world usually feels about things that came directly from Africa.

[vaio]

Interestingly though yuh could get chutney/chutney soca all year through

[bigzack]

Interestingly though yuh could get chutney/chutney soca all year through

That is because Chutney music still maintains the origianl soca beat.

That is also because chutney music is still quite danceable.

But de day that dey allow chutney tuh adopt the style ah the race horse music, and the singers start singing in hindi/Jamaican, chutney music gorn through.

[Sirius]

Zack T&T has a far more westernized sound than Africa so you're addressing a point that barely even exists. There are some things that inherently you have to grow up knowing to appreciate - hence my agreement with Edyle on calypso. Then there are others you can market on the world stage. The fact is we don't even try. Our studios don't do a thing to push our local talent outside of the carnival season and it's a shame. I don't know why you're remaining hung up on calypso when the point being made encompasses far more.

Good point @ shield. The disdain for "anything local" goes far beyond music.

[bigzack]

Then there are others you can market on the world stage. The fact is we don't even try. Our studios don't do a thing to push our local talent outside of the carnival season and it's a shame.

"The stage is in front of us
Time tuh get delirious
mash it up, stamp on it
prance on it
we taking advantage"

How do you market that time, monetary-seeking, and place specific piece of garbage, to the world at large?

Unless you feel that "all the world is a stage".

[Chicabonita]

Within T&T we have rock bands who add their own local and/or regional flavor to an international favorite genre. Look for example at Orange Sky who mix reggae with rock and Skid Neveley who use a steel pan in rock music. They both also have a sound that can reach far beyond our shores and are but two of the more popular examples.

I am not a fan of calypso or soca. I think is one of those things you need to be brought up listening. I like Orange Sky a lot and I find them to be unique. They need more support!

[vaio]

you should try Skid Neveley Chica, i think they are great as well!