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    Thread: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

    1. #201
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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Transcripts available here:
      http://www.1990coe.org/proceedings.html
      "None of us has the power to make someone else Love us. But we all have the power to give away Love, to Love other people. And if we do so, we change the kind of person we are, and we change the kind of world we live in"

      Love, the answer is always Love.

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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Quote Originally Posted by vaio View Post
      VAIO, unless i missed something, my questions have still not been answered. Do the witnesses swear: " To tell the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me GOD,or ALLAH" ? And if they are sworn to tell the truth, and nothing but the truth, can they be charged for perjury, if they are found lying ? If they are not sworn to "Tell the truth, and nothing but the truth, so hepl me GOD, or ALLAH", then they could lie "FREE SHEET" ? But, they are honest 'upstanding' citizens, they would not lie.



      DANCERBOY
      If you say what you think, don't expect to hear only what you like.
      Some men change their party for the sake of their principles, others change their principles for the sake of the party..

    3. #203
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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      There are people who do not understand the difference between a formal enquiry involving interviews and cross examinations of those involved, and informal personal stories. They feel a letter to the editor or a forum post carries the same weight as the proceedings of a formal investigative board. Suddenly, people who didn't give a hoot about financial prudence have a profound interest in the cost of the investigation. You ent catch on to what going on yet?
      And suddenly is I who goh spread out the paper the commission of enquiry printed on, in them hospital wards, and tell them people, "Allyuh and allyuh PP supporters did complaining bout shortage ah beds, lie dong dey".
      "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image."

      Genesis 9:6


    4. #204
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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Quote Originally Posted by dancerboy View Post
      MACCO GYUL my good friend, that's a worthwhile investigations. Where the guns came from, and how they got into the country undetected ? If we know that, that's one loop hole we could close.

      DANCERBOY
      And the cow jump over the moon.
      "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image."

      Genesis 9:6


    5. #205
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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Ah arks 2 questions. Meh fren VAIO snde me ah lnik and ah stlli anit get de naswer yte. Nbodoy emses to hvea de awnser. Btu, ew giong flul staem aheda. Ah hpoe alulyh udnertasnd thsi ? AH WANT AN ANSWER ! Before we 'MOVE ON'



      DANCERBOY
      If you say what you think, don't expect to hear only what you like.
      Some men change their party for the sake of their principles, others change their principles for the sake of the party..

    6. #206
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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Quote Originally Posted by dancerboy View Post
      Ah arks 2 questions. Meh fren VAIO snde me ah lnik and ah stlli anit get de naswer yte. Nbodoy emses to hvea de awnser. Btu, ew giong flul staem aheda. Ah hpoe alulyh udnertasnd thsi ? AH WANT AN ANSWER ! Before we 'MOVE ON'

      DANCERBOY
      Ah swerna tuh hatw nestiouq?
      "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image."

      Genesis 9:6


    7. #207
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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Quote Originally Posted by bigzack View Post
      Ah swerna tuh hatw nestiouq?
      Do the witnesses swear : "To tell the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me GOD, or ALLAH ?. If they did, and they are found lying, can they be charged for Perjury ?. And if they are not sworn : "To tell the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me GOD, or ALLAH, then they could lie "FREE SHEET" ?


      DANCERBOY
      If you say what you think, don't expect to hear only what you like.
      Some men change their party for the sake of their principles, others change their principles for the sake of the party..

    8. #208
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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Dancerboy, Vaio pointed you to the transcripts. If you read through those transcripts, you will have your answer. I quote:

      Quote Originally Posted by http://www.1990coe.org/proceedings/208-25th-of-january-transcript-of-proceedings.html
      Mr. Allahar: If the witness could be sworn, please?

      [Ms. Moy Hing enters witness box]

      Ms. Moy Hing: I swear by the Almighty God that the evidence I shall give to this Enquiry shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

      Mr. Allahar: Good morning, Ma’am.

      Ms. Moy Hing: Good morning.
      As you can see, they are sworn, yes.
      Read what I said. Not what you thought I was going to say.

    9. #209
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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Quote Originally Posted by dancerboy View Post
      VAIO my friend, i want to know, where the guns came from, and how they got in the country undetected. Don't you think that is more crucial at this point ? At least if we find out who brought the guns in the country, they can be prosecuted. And i am sure we would not have to go to the Privy council to adjudicate.


      DANCERBOY

      A Customs Officer who now resides in the US could provide the appropriate information--ah know he English name too--but I think he have a Muslim one now.
      Truth does not depend on a consensus of opinion.

      “I suspect that they are also different from you. See the mystery that is each one of them. Reverence them even as you seek to engage them. Find in yourself the courage, the faithfulness, never to give up on anyone who is given to you as mentor and friend,”

    10. #210
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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Quote Originally Posted by Angie View Post
      Why don't you pray for yourself ... God doh only answers hypocrits' prayers, he does answer the prayers of chutney sharing jezebels too.
      god must be laffing....a back door woman throwing stones.
      And the lady she hails from Trinidad,
      Island of the spices.
      Salt for your meat and cinnamon sweet,
      And the rum is for all your good vices.

      -son of a son of a sailor-jimmy buffet.


      smashmouth football, baby....pittsburgh style!

      -jerome bettis.

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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      "I have no information

      I got the impression"


      sounds like vendetta to me--what the hell else it could be? old age?
      Truth does not depend on a consensus of opinion.

      “I suspect that they are also different from you. See the mystery that is each one of them. Reverence them even as you seek to engage them. Find in yourself the courage, the faithfulness, never to give up on anyone who is given to you as mentor and friend,”

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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Why it take so long to get a coe?

    13. #213
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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Quote Originally Posted by Solachica View Post
      Why it take so long to get a coe?
      probably for the same reasons this one will support--furtive imaginations--wait till Bakr get ah stage to parlance.
      Truth does not depend on a consensus of opinion.

      “I suspect that they are also different from you. See the mystery that is each one of them. Reverence them even as you seek to engage them. Find in yourself the courage, the faithfulness, never to give up on anyone who is given to you as mentor and friend,”

    14. #214
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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Quote Originally Posted by raider View Post
      god must be laffing....a back door woman throwing stones.
      Suck it up and get over it!
      "The value of a man or woman resides in what he or she gives, not in what they are capable of receiving"

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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Quote Originally Posted by raider View Post
      god must be laffing....a back door woman throwing stones.
      Raider, two words will suffice...here it comes...Religious hypocrit

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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Quote Originally Posted by dancerboy View Post
      SALTWATER my friend, I anxiously await your posting of yesterdays proceedings. It would appear as though JOHN HUMPHREY was representing the JAMAT. What party did he belong to, again ?


      DANCERBOY
      DB my PNM hypocrit friend, I get the impression that you feel I will defend members of the UNC if it is found they were involved in the coup. If any members of govt, including the opposition are found out to be involved in that travesty of justice, I would support the law and/or any action taken (within the law) to have them punished. I am a firm believer in democracy and the rule of law.

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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Quote Originally Posted by bigzack View Post
      Saltwater ent here this morning tuh full up the board with every full stop, comma, question mark, exclamation mark and inverted commas. Ah suspect that she ent like Toney testimony. So I goh full in today with ah condensed version.

      http://www.newsday.co.tt/crime_and_court/0,134780.html



      In other words, the Special Branch did done investigate aready.

      Buh 21 years later we goh get ah clearer picture?

      Allyuh good oui.
      Just for the record, I does hv tings to do eh, like entertaining visitors, cooking curry and making sure that curry doh get into my long beautiful nails, and when that happens it takes time to clean my beautiful nails and I does hv to massage, cream and moisturize my beautiful hands...you get the idea, ent.
      All that means is that as much as I am passionate about making sure the PNM ded, I does hv to put it aside and respond to the demands of life.

    18. #218
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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Robinson was shot, battered

      Joseph Toney:

      By Ria Taitt Political Editor

      Former government minister John Humphrey's advice to the Muslimeen insurgents to "get something in writing" delayed the release of the hostages in the Red House by one day.
      This was revealed by former NAR minister Joseph Toney during testimony at the Commission of Enquiry into events surrounding the 1990 coup attempt.
      "I think there was some discussion between Bilaal Abdullah and Selwyn Richardson about some condition and we were lined up to leave and John Humphrey told him (Abdullah) 'Be careful. Remember what happen to the soldiers (in 1970). You better get that in writing'. Well, we stayed there for another day," Toney stated.
      Asked by lead counsel for the Commission, Avory Sinanan SC, whether Humphrey volunteered this information, Toney said: "Yes".
      Toney said discussions then ensued on how "this thing should be put in writing and the question, the whole train of our leaving there was shot down, whilst they sorted that matter out".
      Toney said his colleagues were "quite upset".
      "You wondered which side is he (Humphrey) on?"
      Toney, who drafted two of the documents—one in which the hostages agreed to support Winston Dookeran as prime minister and another, the resignation of former prime minister ANR Robinson— said he had to "cajole" Robinson to sign the documents.
      "You know he is a very stubborn chap. And when I went around, even though he was in pain, and bleeding and dishevelled, his face all battered up. He was grumbling that he was not prepared to sign anything. And I had to whisper to him, because gunmen were very close to me: "Sign this, it doesn't mean anything. Let us just sign this thing and get out of here". He borrowed the spectacles of Mr Rawle Raphael to look at the document and then he signed. He is a great chap," Toney said.
      He said he did believe that the document were unenforceable.
      "All my legal instincts told me that these things (documents) would have been thrown in the waste paper basket. Because of the circumstances under which these things were done. I couldn't see a court upholding it at all," he said.
      He added: "My approach was that if it is that we can bring this matter to an end by having these things signed off, then let we do that. If it is that they had asked me for half of Kensington Oval, it would have put it in the agreement".
      Toney said the Muslimeen stormed the Parliament, they were shouting things like "The NAR Government wicked. Robbie wicked. We take away the COLA. We take away the 10 per cent. We getting instruction from the IMF...Yuh take away we land..".
      He said the insurgents singled out Robinson and Selwyn Richardson.
      "They took them aside and I heard slaps and thumps...and what seemed to me like a heavy inflicting of blows on the two of them...I didn't hear Mr Robinson saying anything. He was silent. But Mr Richardson was in some pain, he was very vocal....bawling 'Oh God, all yuh hitting meh. Doh hit meh.'
      Toney said having beaten Robinson they asked him to tell the forces outside to back off because they were in control. He said when Robinson uttered his famous words, "Attack with full force", he heard a gunshot.
      "And Robinson starting bawling in pain (and saying) 'you all have shot me. I am going to die. But I am going to die for my country. I am prepared to die for my country'. He kept repeating that on and on and on. And I think they tried to stop him from saying those words. And I heard the voice of Dr Emanuel Hosein saying 'All yuh don't do that. If all yuh do that, yuh would kill him'. (The insurgents at that time were trying to gag Robinson.) I got the impression that they backed off. But he (Robinson) continued moaning and groaning 'I would die for my country'.
      Toney said by the time Robinson left the Parliament, (one day ahead of the rest of the hostages), his captors were telling Robinson he was a brave man and referring to him as "Mr Prime Minister". But by then, Toney said, it was clear that the assault had collapsed and the Muslimeen were looking for a way out.
      "They were giving us the impression that because of the non-contact with those outside, they were now our best buddies, that they were the ones who would protect us because as far as they were concerned, those on the outside were getting foreign help to kill us all. And they would have been killed as well. So their best bet was to ensure that Mr Robinson was alive, well and could attend to the situation and everybody would go home".
      Toney said Robinson's health was deteriorating and he got the impression that the captors were fearful that the possibility existed that he would die in captivity.
      Toney said he also felt that the Muslimeen felt the invasion of the Parliament would have sparked a popular uprising and that people would have come out into Woodford Square, "and we might have all been shot and executed. But it just did not happen. And I think they were quite disappointed," he said, adding: "They were clearly looking for a way out" (when the negotiations for a settlement was on the way).
      However, Toney noted that while popular support did not come, he was surprised by the reaction of some people who felt that the National Alliance for Reconstruction had gotten its just due and that it had called the coup attempt upon itself.
      Advising the Commissioners to read the newspapers within the month following the failed coup, Toney said the Commissioners would see what "those who posed as leaders had to say".
      He noted that a certain type of atmosphere had been generated in the country—via the marches, the poets (calypsonians) and others—just prior to the coup attempt, which would have led a group like the Muslimeen to believe that if they had got into the Parliament and shot ministers, they would have been given awards.
      http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/...114769284.html

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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      ...PNM, UNC used Jamaat in the past

      Both the People's National Movement (PNM) and the United National Congress (UNC) used the services of the Jamaat al Muslimeen to gain control of the marginal seats, former hostage, Wendell Eversley told the Commission of Enquiry yesterday.
      Eversley said he witnessed the UNC using the Muslimeen in the 2000 general election in marginal constituency of Tunapuna and in St Joseph.
      He also recalled that Jamaat leader Imam Yasin Abu Bakr was present at PNM headquarters at Balisier House on the night of one of its election victories.
      Under questioning, he said, Abu Bakr appeared to be jubilant. He said both parties have rewarded Muslimeen members by giving them positions in government.
      Eversley said there was also a clear link between the coup attempt and the subsequent proliferation of guns and drugs in the country.
      He said both former prime ministers Patrick Manning and Basdeo Panday took the same position on a Commission of Enquiry into the matter—that there was nothing to be gained from it.
      He said he had to give credit to the present Government and Congress of the People leader Winston Dookeran and Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar, both of whom he communicated with, in establishing the current probe.
      http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/...114769279.html

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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Revealing coup bid facts, finally

      Published: Fri, 2011-01-28 19:08

      Twenty years after, but not too late to hear in detail the circumstances surrounding the events of the 1990 attempted coup on the democracy of Trinidad and Tobago. That succeeding governments and the population could have allowed the years to go by without such a commission of enquiry as being held now is beyond understanding. But thankfully, it has started. We expect too that there will be need for the hearings to be extended and perhaps the scope widened because there are many details, claims and counter claims to be probed. Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar, at the moment under deep scrutiny for the so obvious blunders surrounding the appointment of Reshmi Ramnarine, should take a moment out of her stress and receive credit for having the courage to do what her predecessors failed to do for 20 long years.
      Already, we have heard then prime minister ANR Robinson go into some detail about the events in the Red House on that day of shame, and very significantly, the political machinations, as he related them, that went on before the days on which the actual coup was attempted. His revelations about the conflict within the coalition National Alliance for Reconstruction (NAR) government were quite interesting and should be instructive to the regime of today. Indeed, the experience of the NAR should guide the path of all political forces who would attempt to fashion a political union out of the historically disparate elements of the society.
      The political recounting by senior statesman Robinson would be particularly useful in what we often call a “nine-day wonder” society which pays little attention beyond the headlines of the present. Yet again, and whatever the criticisms he faced as prime minister and president, his testimony brought into focus the courage and patriotism demonstrated by Mr Robinson when he was under fire and brimstone from the Muslimeen gunmen. That is uncommon sacrifice in the cause of others and he must be admired and cherished. His courage and valour were even more noteworthy when there were other leaders of the time who did not leave their places of comfort and only surfaced when it was safe to do so. It is easy for many to talk about sacrifice and what they have done for their country in peacetime; it is something else to put your life on the line when your country’s democracy is threatened.
      In this respect, we do hope that both Mr Panday and Mr Manning make themselves available to provide testimony at the enquiry so that they help to clarify the historical record and explain some of the political occurrences of the last decade and a half. It is expected too that Mr Robinson’s statement, as he gets to finish it, should trigger responses by those who may legitimately feel they have their own story to tell as it may contradict what Mr Robinson has and will say. In respect to coup leader Bakr, he should now come forward and make good on the many allegations he has made over many years about who were co-conspirators in his plans and substantiate them under direct examination and cross-examination.
      Details also told to the commission by then minister Joseph Toney and long-time agitator for the commission, Wendell Eversley, who was a spectator in the chamber on the day, are also of significance and fill in many spaces that have been up for question. Ultimately, the major purpose of the enquiry must be to inform the present of the past and to instruct the country’s conduct of its politics into the future
      http://guardian.co.tt/editorial/2011...-facts-finally

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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      By asking for amnesty the Muslimeen had conceded defeatFriday, January 28 2011
      FORMER NAR government minister Joseph Toney yesterday admitted that “certain individuals” were investigated for possibly assisting the Jamaat al Muslimeen, but there was no concrete evidence which could have fingered anyone.
      Toney was testifying yesterday at the Commission of Enquiry set up to investigate events surrounding the July 27, 1990, attempted coup.

      He said after the insurrection, an investigation of security officers who may have assisted the Muslimeen, had been conducted by Special Branch officers, but it did not bear fruit.

      “I listened to recordings of phone conversations, but at the end of the day it bore no fruit,” he said.

      Toney, the former Toco/Manzanilla MP in the NAR government, who also became a minister in the Ministry of Justice and National Security after the 1990 attempted coup, yesterday relived the events of July 1990 at the enquiry.

      He admitted that it appeared by the same evening the Muslimeen members stormed the Parliament Chamber, their plan had collapsed..

      He said it appeared at that point the insurrectionists realised that they had “bitten off more than they could chew.”

      Toney attributed this to the fact that the rebels began talking about a way out.

      He said it appeared that they felt by invading the Parliament, they would have received support, but were left disappointed when they did not.

      “They realised it, and were now looking for a way out. Those who may have offered them support, evaporated,” he said.

      He also said, “I thought when they were asking for an amnesty they had conceded defeat. If you are talking about an amnesty obviously you have failed,” he said. This was on the same day of the siege.....
      http://www.newsday.co.tt/crime_and_court/0,134780.html

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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Bakr and he boys killed so many people and got away scotch free ... is dat what Robbie call defeat?????????
      "The value of a man or woman resides in what he or she gives, not in what they are capable of receiving"

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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Quote Originally Posted by Angie View Post
      Suck it up and get over it!
      is that what patrick used to say?
      And the lady she hails from Trinidad,
      Island of the spices.
      Salt for your meat and cinnamon sweet,
      And the rum is for all your good vices.

      -son of a son of a sailor-jimmy buffet.


      smashmouth football, baby....pittsburgh style!

      -jerome bettis.

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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      I read what Robinson said about Manning, can he do that? (pretty much accuse Manning even though as he said he doesn't have hard evidence?)

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      Default Re: Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup

      Panday's 'Wake me up...' irks Robbie
      Former prime minister and president Arthur NR Robinson testified yesterday he had been told former prime minister Patrick Manning had "in some way (been) implicated in the matter" but refused to elaborate since he had no evidence to support the statement.
      Robinson was giving evidence for a second occasion before the commission of enquiry investigating the events of the 1990 insurrection by members of the Jamaat-al-Muslimeen.
      Robinson said following the attempted coup, he was told reports implicated Manning as having knowledge of the matter.
      "There were reports that Manning was, in some way, implicated in the matter. I don't like to pursue matters which I do not have hard evidence.
      "It has been reported to me in such a manner I would think will be taken seriously. I think it would create further friction in the country. But it has been mentioned in many circles that the absence of Manning in Parliament from the occasion and the time of his conduct afterwards and affiliation with the Muslimeen gave rise to speculation," Robinson said.
      Robinson said even former prime minster Basdeo Panday's attitude left him feeling uncomfortable: "Because of his attitude during the course of what was taking place in the country, it was reported to me when he was told of this matter, he said, 'Wake me up when it's over.'"
      "I thought it could mean wake me up when the Muslimeens have taken over."
      When asked what may have triggered the attempted coup, Robinson speculated the root cause may have been the social programmes which his government started.
      By implementing these programmes, Robinson said this limited the areas under control by the Muslimeen, and Jamaat-al-Muslimeen leader Yasin Abu Bakr was unhappy with this.
      "Bakr was not happy his territory was being taken since these programmes were aimed at helping the poor and youths out," Robinson said.
      The poor and youths were among the individuals recruited by Abu Bakr in his organisation.
      Robinson said prior to the attempted coup, his government obtained information regarding the source of funding the Muslimeen had—the drug trade.
      Robinson said after the attempted coup, "a prominent trade unionist advocated a communist country"; this, Robinson said, was rejected.
      While being held as a hostage in the Red House, Robinson said another of his ministers, John Humphrey, who later became a dissident, "appeared to be co-operating with both sides—the police and Jamaat-al-Muslimeen".
      "On one occasion when I needed to go to the bathroom, both Humphrey and a Muslimeen engineered to take me. I did not see any conversation between Humphrey and the Muslimeen."
      Robinson described both Humphrey and Panday as creating a sense of uncertainty within his government.
      Robinson said, "There were errant members of government, and they had to be expelled to avoid them from continuing on as members."
      Praising the efforts of the Regiment, Robinson said: "The Regiment did a heroic job in securing the hostages."
      Adding no intelligence agencies were in place to have an indication of the incident, Robinson said it was the duty of the police and army to ensure such sections functioned within their organisation.
      "So far as I was aware , no special system was in place for intelligence-gathering; the police and certain sections of the army will consider it their duty to gather information," Robinson said.
      Asked about the Privy Council ruling against the insurrections, which found it would be an abuse of process to prosecute them after the amnesty was deemed invalid, Robinson said: "As a citizen of a country, I felt it was insensitive. Had it happened in the UK, the courts would not have let them go free in such a manner. "
      "The Privy Council has and is the highest court in T&T and consists of UK judges."
      Adding his government did not seek to reverse the decision of the Privy Council in Parliament, Robinson said his government respects and observes the law of the highest court.
      The enquiry continues on Monday, but Robinson is expected to return on Wednesday to be questioned by the commissioners.
      http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/...114844399.html

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