One Caribbean Airline

[Faraz]

Just wondering what you guys with business/economic/commerce backgrounds think of this idea.

T&T based Caribbean Airlines is considering acquiring both Air Jamaica and LIAT to create one true caribbean air carrier.

Caribbean Airlines is a clean, lean version of BWIA. Most of the 'fat' has been trimmed, including upper management. Its business plan is pretty stable at the moment and one of the few airlines in the world to make good use of the demise of other airlines reductions during the recession.

Both Air Jamaica and LIAT are bleeding money and backed by two of the strongest Unions in the caribbean.

Absorbing these two ailing airlines can be an economic nightmare unless Caribbean Airlines has the ability to reproduce its business plan in triplicate.

However, intra-caribbean passengers will greatly benefit from this plan. Connections from island to island will be greatly enhanced and possibly a reduction in airfare.

Caricom population is approximately 6 Million people.

What do you think?

[Solachica]

In 2010 the inter islands ferry is supposed to start.

[Redman]

Well,
I would definitely agree that we should benefit from 1 airline servicing the Caribbean.

BUT given this (and most) govts inability to manage a corporate entity I must have concerns.

As the saying goes-best way to make a millionaire is to take a billionaire and give him an airline.

It probably is the hardest business to run now-energy prices have to move higher and you will face real competition from the larger airlines waiting to see the demand and open up the flight -and leave when it slows down.

The necessity for a govt to service a political and /or social agenda is a crippling cross for any business to carry.

What I would like to see is that they form 1 airline and IPO it out to the regional stock markets.

Transfer the risks to those who are prepared to take it-not saddle our consolidated fund with guarantees etc.

Later

[Faraz]

Sola, it's not just about intra-caribbean transport. Actually, the marketing manager for the inter-island ferry has resigned already. I doubt it may even set sail, and the ferrys themselves look "iffy".

4 Hours sailing from Trinidad to Grenada for $130US? With the exception of regular traders, most people would prefer spend a few dollars more for a 30 minute flight.
http://www.bedytravel.com/

Air Jamaica has/had a lot of heavy routes that Caribbean Airlines does not fly to. Heavy Jamaican population in Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia etc.
By having a second Caribbean Airlines hub/base in Kingston, it now means a passenger in Trinidad wanting to go to those US cities will only have to make 1 stop in Jamaica.......instead of connecting via Miami, New York or Houston.

One caribbean carrier can create major passenger conveniences because of Jamaica's geographic location.

It's just the economics I'm concerned about. The T&T taxpayers.

[Solachica]

Ohhhh. Good info :D
I myself wud rather take a plane than a boat.

[Sirius]

Is that the ferry pictured on the above linked website? Doesn't look like a boat I would want to be on in open waters.

I would take air travel over boat any day. Especially for island hoppers the airfare isn't that much. The only advantage of the boat that I can see would be attractive is if you could take your vehicle with you but I do not think we have the legal framework to allow anyone to simply drive their T&T registered vehicle in Barbados, for instance. Either way, could always rent a vehicle.

I have a feeling that this was always Caribbean Airlines' intention though. There had to be a reason for shedding the national airline image.

[six4]

I personally like the idea of competition. If Caribbean Airlines (CA) were to merge with LIAT and Air Jamaica, then intra-Caribbean travel will be limited to CA. The serious drawback to that idea is that we won't have options if we are not happy with CA.

[ebony02]

I personally like the idea of competition. If Caribbean Airlines (CA) were to merge with LIAT and Air Jamaica, then intra-Caribbean travel will be limited to CA. The serious drawback to that idea is that we won't have options if we are not happy with CA.

Precisely.

Competition is good for the consumer. I already think CA is expensive and would imagine they would hike prices if they remain the one and only Caribbean airline.

Also, would this not require either more flights and/or larger aircrafts? I am thinking CA would be taking on a huge responsibility in providing flights within and outside the Caribbean and I do not think they are ready for such.

Don't think I'll be supporting this possible venture.

[Solachica]

I know people who were loyal to bwia and now ca and wount travel with anything else no matter wht.
I not tht loyal. I find they always to expensive. I look for cheapest flights.

[six4]

Interesting article and readers' comments

http://guardian.co.tt/commentary/editor ... lines-link (http://guardian.co.tt/commentary/editorial/2009/12/19/caution-needed-airlines-link)

The news that the Jamaican Government has deemed Caribbean Airlines to be the preferred bidder for Air Jamaica should receive a cautious welcome from those who have dreamed for decades about the establishment of a single regional air carrier. It is indicative of the importance of Air Jamaica to our neighbour to the north that the country’s Prime Minister, Bruce Golding, took the time to fly to Port-of-Spain on Wednesday to hold talks with local officials on the future of the two airlines. Mr Golding’s unannounced visit took place on the eve of his presentation to Jamaica’s Parliament on the country’s US$1.3 billion loan agreement with the International Monetary Fund, which had been insisting that the loss-generating Jamaican air carrier be sold in order to ease the continuing burden of US dollar subsidies on the country’s treasury.

[Faraz]

There's almost no competition between LIAT, AJ and CAL. With the exception of LIAT flying between Trinidad and Barbados, none of these 3 airlines share any of the same routes.

I don't think CAL will absorb AJ. I think the GOJ will allow AJ to die, and CAL will just take up some more slack into Kingston.
Our daily flights into KIN are usually filled to capacity - although via Barbados, Antigua or St. Maarten.

Media has beaten to death year after year about Barbados not having a national airline but surviving well on tourism. However, no one ever seems to mention the heavy subsidies the Bajan gov't pays these foreign carriers to enter their country.

That system will never work in T&T. We have what is known as a VFR market. "Visiting Friends and Relatives". This is the core of CAL's passengers. We can never survive on tourism in this country.

[miktay]

Well,
I would definitely agree that we should benefit from 1 airline servicing the Caribbean.

BUT given this (and most) govts inability to manage a corporate entity I must have concerns.

As the saying goes-best way to make a millionaire is to take a billionaire and give him an airline.

It probably is the hardest business to run now-energy prices have to move higher and you will face real competition from the larger airlines waiting to see the demand and open up the flight -and leave when it slows down.

The necessity for a govt to service a political and /or social agenda is a crippling cross for any business to carry.

What I would like to see is that they form 1 airline and IPO it out to the regional stock markets.

Transfer the risks to those who are prepared to take it-not saddle our consolidated fund with guarantees etc.
Later

Govt tried this with BWIA and investors lost their shirts...

[Redman]

The risk should be taken by those who are willing to take the risk.
By the Govt doing it the risks are transferred to the tax payers.. whether we like it or not


Later

[skl]

let Air Jamaica and LIAT go bankrupt. then buy thier equipment, hire some of their staff and expand into their markets.

[Starjack]

Air Jamaica has no choice, its either merge with Caribbean Airlines or suffer the same fate as BWIA.

[Scorpio]

Air Jamaica has no choice, its either merge with Caribbean Airlines or suffer the same fate as BWIA.

Starjack, why the colour coding ?

[Starjack]

Starjack, why the colour coding ?[/quote]

Oh, the colors are the airlines' theme , they have all kinds of color, but i end up choosing these three colors.

[Faraz]

let Air Jamaica and LIAT go bankrupt. then buy thier equipment, hire some of their staff and expand into their markets.

that's what we're hoping for. unfortunately, what we hope for, and what we get, are hardly ever the same.

[dancerboy]

There's almost no competition between LIAT, AJ and CAL. With the exception of LIAT flying between Trinidad and Barbados, none of these 3 airlines share any of the same routes.

I don't think CAL will absorb AJ. I think the GOJ will allow AJ to die, and CAL will just take up some more slack into Kingston.
Our daily flights into KIN are usually filled to capacity - although via Barbados, Antigua or St. Maarten.

Media has beaten to death year after year about Barbados not having a national airline but surviving well on tourism. However, no one ever seems to mention the heavy subsidies the Bajan gov't pays these foreign carriers to enter their country.

That system will never work in T&T. We have what is known as a VFR market. "Visiting Friends and Relatives". This is the core of CAL's passengers. We can never survive on tourism in this country.
So FARAZ myfriend, T&T economy does depend on negapats "VFR MARKET", That's US, visiting friendd and family. So your job depends on US flying 'home'.

DANCERBOY

[Scorpio]

Starjack, why the colour coding ?

Oh, the colors are the airlines' theme , they have all kinds of color, but i end up choosing these three colors.[/quote]

Very ermm ... 'creative'.

Post on bro.

[Faraz]

There's almost no competition between LIAT, AJ and CAL. With the exception of LIAT flying between Trinidad and Barbados, none of these 3 airlines share any of the same routes.

I don't think CAL will absorb AJ. I think the GOJ will allow AJ to die, and CAL will just take up some more slack into Kingston.
Our daily flights into KIN are usually filled to capacity - although via Barbados, Antigua or St. Maarten.

Media has beaten to death year after year about Barbados not having a national airline but surviving well on tourism. However, no one ever seems to mention the heavy subsidies the Bajan gov't pays these foreign carriers to enter their country.

That system will never work in T&T. We have what is known as a VFR market. "Visiting Friends and Relatives". This is the core of CAL's passengers. We can never survive on tourism in this country.
So FARAZ myfriend, T&T economy does depend on negapats "VFR MARKET", That's US, visiting friendd and family. So your job depends on US flying 'home'.

DANCERBOY


Oh gosh DB, you yuhself goh ask that question?? Yuh know the negapats won't travel with a TT based airline. Is only American, Delta, Continental, Skyservice and Air Transat fuh allyuh [smilie=dash3.gif]

[dancerboy]

There's almost no competition between LIAT, AJ and CAL. With the exception of LIAT flying between Trinidad and Barbados, none of these 3 airlines share any of the same routes.

I don't think CAL will absorb AJ. I think the GOJ will allow AJ to die, and CAL will just take up some more slack into Kingston.
Our daily flights into KIN are usually filled to capacity - although via Barbados, Antigua or St. Maarten.

Media has beaten to death year after year about Barbados not having a national airline but surviving well on tourism. However, no one ever seems to mention the heavy subsidies the Bajan gov't pays these foreign carriers to enter their country.

That system will never work in T&T. We have what is known as a VFR market. "Visiting Friends and Relatives". This is the core of CAL's passengers. We can never survive on tourism in this country.
So FARAZ myfriend, T&T economy does depend on negapats "VFR MARKET", That's US, visiting friendd and family. So your job depends on US flying 'home'.

DANCERBOY


Oh gosh DB, you yuhself goh ask that question?? Yuh know the negapats won't travel with a TT based airline. Is only American, Delta, Continental, Skyservice and Air Transat fuh allyuh [smilie=dash3.gif]
Yuh wrong agian, bout me my friend. I support my local(TRINI) air line.

DANCERBOY

[Scorpio]

I support the airline that does lose my bags the least and if they lose it they are apologetic, helpful and sympathic.

It comes down to service and personal experience, period.

[guyguy]

When Caribbean Airlines begin flying from LAX to MIA to POS, I shall travel with them to and from T&T, along with hundreds, possibly thousands, of people in the LA basin - both Trinis and non-Trinis.

[Scorpio]

When Caribbean Airlines begin flying from LAX to MIA to POS, I shall travel with them to and from T&T, along with hundreds, possibly thousands, of people in the LA basin - both Trinis and non-Trinis.

Good for you, I hope yuh bags ain't end up flying from LAX to JFK to LGW.

[guyguy]

When Caribbean Airlines begin flying from LAX to MIA to POS, I shall travel with them to and from T&T, along with hundreds, possibly thousands, of people in the LA basin - both Trinis and non-Trinis.

Good for you, I hope yuh bags ain't end up flying from LAX to JFK to LGW.I doh travel wit bags breds. Ah does walk wit meh hands swingin'. :D :D :D

[Faraz]

It will more likely be POS-KIN-LAX....straight line flight.

nice flight actually.

[guyguy]

It will more likely be POS-KIN-LAX....straight line flight.

nice flight actually.Better still. Maybe they can allow stop-overs so I can kill two birds with one stone and visit meh famalee in Jamaica.

[Scorpio]

Ah does walk wit meh hands swingin'. :D :D :D

T.M.I :|

[Redman]

When Caribbean Airlines begin flying from LAX to MIA to POS, I shall travel with them to and from T&T, along with hundreds, possibly thousands, of people in the LA basin - both Trinis and non-Trinis.

Good for you, I hope yuh bags ain't end up flying from LAX to JFK to LGW.I doh travel wit bags breds. Ah does walk wit meh hands swingin'. :D :D :D


Not suprised :shock: :)


Later

[dancerboy]

Better still. Maybe they can allow stop-overs so I can kill two birds with one stone and visit meh famalee in Jamaica.

Ah hope you doh end UP like the GUY who stoped off in ANTIGUA on his way to T&T, when Lester Bird was PM. When they ask him, his reason for visiting, He said: " I decided to kill two birds with one stone". Well as expected, he was arrested, and thrown in Jail.

DANCERBOY

[guyguy]

Ah have connections in Antigua so ah eh fraid. :):):)

[Wayne]

So an airline success depends on those pesky stealing baggage handlers?

[Faraz]

Decision has been pushed back to March 31st.

[Starjack]

Decision has been pushed back to March 31st.


May i ask, what decision is that?

[Scorpio]

So according to a report in the Express this morning, it looks like this is really going to happen, CAL is going to aquire Air Jamacia, it would be interesting to see what will happens tgo the reported US $900M debt Air Jamacia is carrying.

[Starjack]

Wikipedia did said that Caribbean Airlines and Air Jamaica suppose to merge on d 15th of Jan, which is yesterday but it seems it has not come as a reality as yet.

[Scorpio]

So an airline success depends on those pesky stealing baggage handlers?

If your employees are stealing from your customers then how can your business suceed ?

[bigzack]

Big Trinidad

http://assets.mediaspanonline.com/prod/4020199/ed-cartoon-wed-27-jan-10_w303.jpg

[Faraz]

Haha....good one BZ.......but allow me to translate for those who may not understand the cartoon......

Man in suit is Bruce Golding, Jamaican PM. "JALPA" is Jamaican Airline Pilots Association. Similary, we have TALPA in Trinidad.

JALPA has come up with a brilliant idea that the pilots can save the ailing airline once the GOJ clears all the debt. JALPA claims they have secured the confidence of some foreign investors, but have yet to prove it to the GOJ.

GORTT will not be putting any money into Air Jamaica or it's employees. That is for the GOJ to clear. As a matter of fact, T&T will be helping the Jamaicans by rehiring 350 of the 1800 employees about to lose their jobs.

Air Jamaica uses a model/type airplane different to what we use at CAL, therefore only their pilots/flight attendants/engineers are certified to operate them until both bases - POS + KIN - are streamlined into one type.

So on paper, T&T/CAL will not be taking over Air Jamaica......but infact refreshing leases on 6 of their airplanes and hiring 350 freshly retrenched workers....and most importantly....securing most of their lucrative routes.

Wait for part 3 and part 4 of this mega plan....!

[bigzack]

Faraz

Thanks for that info.

[Starjack]

Big Trinidad

http://assets.mediaspanonline.com/prod/4020199/ed-cartoon-wed-27-jan-10_w303.jpg

No wonder why Jamaicans hate Trinidadians. We seem to be one step closer in taking over their bussiness. And when it comes to acquiring Air Jamaica, probably worse for them. Big Trinidad for sure.

[bigzack]

That merger with Air Jamaica.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/business/air-j_7369401

[bigzack]

A matter of national pride.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/editorial/Editorial-for-Jan-29--2010_7370151

[bigzack]

Save the Lovebird campaign.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/save-Air-J----p-3----Thur--Jan-28--2010_7365644


SCORES of Jamaicans have joined the call for Government to retain Air Jamaica and not sell it to the Trinidad-owned Caribbean Airlines. An e-mail appealing to the Government to "Save the Lovebird, don't sell us out. Keep Air Jamaica Jamaican" has been making the rounds on the Internet.

The e-mail, which has a growing list of supporters, is urging persons to "pray, call the prime minister's office, members of Parliament, the media, all family and friends" to support the save-the-airline cause.

It came amidst pleas from Air Jamaica staff for the Government to let the airline remain a "Jamaican owned and operated" one.

[Starjack]

The Jamaica Airline Pilots Association (JALPA), the pilots and the people of Jamaica are all in the campaign to save Air Jamaica. Well let them keep the airline nah, because how they would get all the funds to save the airline. It will just keep losing millions of dollars every year despite making profit in 2009. Jamaica's Prime Minister Bruce Golding says that his administration doesn't have enough budget to save airline and therefore must dispose it. When will they (Jamaicans) ever realize that if the deal with Trinidad-based Caribbean Airlines doesn't go as according to plan, Air Jamaica will have no choice but to shutdown. And I'm sure that's what Mr Golding is trying to prevent, but they won't take him on. So let them keep the airline, they would just go down fighting.

[bigzack]

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Air-jamaica-TUE_7401174


Total Votes: 4985

Yes, it's fine with me. 14.76%
No, I don't support any sale of Air Jamaica. 32.12%
No, I just don't like the fact it's being sold to Trinidad. 53.12%

Close Window

In Trinidad, we must only continue to lend them money that they cyar pay back.

Reminds me ah when we lend Barbados money tuh build they airport, but weeks after the airport open, they wouldn't take T&T currency at concession stands in the same airport.

[Faraz]

It's official. CAL now owns what was Air Jamaica.

Will post more details in a few days after all meh carnival liming done.
Unless BZ finds the link on the jamaica gleaner.

My heart goes out to all the workers who have lost their jobs and now have to reapply for the same position they had. I know exactly how they feel. We went through this same process 2 years ago.

[guyguy]

Well Faraz,
My brother just returned last Wednesday from T&T. He flew CA from Ft. Lauderdale and back. He had nothing but very high praise for every facet of the airline that he encountered - from the ground service to the in-flight service to the food & snacks, and the courtesy of the flight attendants, and finally, the handling of his luggage. He now refuses to fly AA unless absolutely necessary. With that kind of endorsement, I shall definitely be giving them my business whenever they add LAX to their route.

[bigzack]

It's official. CAL now owns what was Air Jamaica.

Will post more details in a few days after all meh carnival liming done.
Unless BZ finds the link on the jamaica gleaner.

My heart goes out to all the workers who have lost their jobs and now have to reapply for the same position they had. I know exactly how they feel. We went through this same process 2 years ago.

I couldn't find anything prominently displayed in the Jamiacan news papers, but I found this in a Guyana daily. Apparently they got the news from the Jamaica Gleaner.

http://www.stabroeknews.com/2010/regional/02/13/caribbean-airlines-to-be-jamaica%e2%80%99s-exclusive-national-carrier/


(Jamaica Gleaner) – The government has agreed to ensure that Caribbean Airlines is designated the exclusive national carrier of Jamaica under the air services agreements between itself and other states.

This was stated in the non-binding letter of intent signed on January 22 by the Government, Air Jamaica Limited, Air Jamaica Holdings Limited and Caribbean Airlines, a company owned by the Government of Trinidad and Tobago.

Under this agreement, the parties are committed to making best efforts to sign legally binding agreements by March 31. In this regard, the GOJ and Air Jamaica will take all necessary steps to effect the cessation of operations of Air Jamaica on or before July 1, and soon thereafter close Air Jamaica.

Caribbean Airlines will commence its Jamaican operations on or before July 1 upon the cessation of operations of Air Jamaica. Effective as of the consummation of the closing, the government has agreed that “Caribbean Airlines shall be the exclusive national carrier of Jamaica and, in this regard, will not request designation of national carrier status for any other air carrier for as long as the Jamaican operations maintain a minimum level of service and meet certain other criteria, which in each case will be set forth in the definitive agreements”.

[Starjack]

When Caribbean Airlines obtain Air Jamaica, i wonder what fleet of aircraft they would be using. Boeing or Airbus?

[Faraz]

When Caribbean Airlines obtain Air Jamaica, i wonder what fleet of aircraft they would be using. Boeing or Airbus?

As Trinidad is the dominant player here, and all CAL's airplanes are Boeing, with Pilots and Engineers Boeing trained....and parts & maintenance all Boeing......hopefully they go ALL Boeing.

But ya never know...

[Solachica]

My gord. Where gortt getting all this money to spend like we have bottomless treasury. :eek:

[bigzack]

My gord. Where gortt getting all this money to spend like we have bottomless treasury. :eek:

We doh have ah bottomless Treasury.

We Treasury full ah bottoms.

[Starjack]

We doh have ah bottomless Treasury.

We Treasury full ah bottoms.

HAHAHAHA!!! I like that one.

[Starjack]

April 12'S The Day

Caribbean Airlines to take control of Air Jamaica next month

Gary Spaulding, Senior Gleaner Writer

The Government is banking on handing over national carrier Air Jamaica to Trinidad and Tobago-operated Caribbean Airlines by April 12, says Bruce Nobles, president and chief executive officer of the national airline.

Nobles told employees in an internal memorandum yesterday that their positions would be made redundant on that day.

He suggested that negotiations have been smooth, with no hint that the talks could grind to a screeching halt before the deadline.

"We are working with Caribbean (Airlines) towards a transaction date concurrent with our major schedule change on April 12, 2010," Nobles disclosed.

He, however, acknowledged that the date was a "target" and could change.

"The plan is that all employee positions at Air Jamaica Holdings Ltd will be made redundant effective with the transaction date," he revealed.

He said Caribbean Airlines will be financially responsible for the transition operation after the transaction date.

"They have been engaged in a due diligence exercise over the last few weeks, with steady progress made in this regard," the Air Jamaica boss noted.

In order to operate the "transition" Jamaican operation, Nobles said a new company would be formed to hire the personnel required.

"Those employees will be hired under fixed-term contracts," he said.

Nobles told employees that the number of jobs required and the terms and conditions of employment are still being finalised.

However, he said members of the transition team from Caribbean Airlines are currently at Air Jamaica completing their due diligence work, which includes a reviewing of information about employees, Air Jamaica's company policies, as well as conducting interviews and psychometric testing.

Divestment process

Nobles said the process of divesting Air Jamaica has continued assiduously since his last communication with the employees, culminating with the signing of the letter of intent with Caribbean Airlines.

He divulged that the divestment exercise has now evolved to a position where certain decisions have been taken and associated timelines determined.

Nobles reiterated that the Government has made it clear that it was not in a position to continue providing financial support for Air Jamaica going forward, and if the transaction with Caribbean Airlines cannot be satisfactorily completed in short order, the options for the Government and for Air Jamaica become very limited.

"As a result, we are working diligently to develop a structure that will ensure that customers can and will continue to book and fly to and from Jamaica with confidence," he stressed. "At this time, we are therefore developing a strategy to ensure a 'seamless' transition for our customers."

Nobles said the current transition proposal is to continue operating the airline, utilising its existing fleet under contract to Caribbean Airlines, for perhaps as long as one year.

gary.spaulding@gleanerjm.com

[Scorpio]

...... all CAL's airplanes are Boeing...

Really ? I am not doubting you since you are obviously are in a position to know about CAL's operations, but did CAL once have an Airbus on lease or something .... maybe I am wrong, but I seem to remember flying from London to Trinidad, with a stop in Barbados on a CAL airbus, sometime around 2005 or 2006 ?

[gajie]

Scorpio, like you trying to give Faraz a stroke? That trip would have been on BWIA, which "closed down" on 31DEC2006. CA started ops on 01JAN2007 and only had the A340 to the end of MAR2007, I think. CA's current jet fleet are all Boeing. I believe CA is also flying some Dash-8s?

[BW]

Scorpio, like you trying to give Faraz a stroke? That trip would have been on BWIA, which "closed down" on 31DEC2006. CA started ops on 01JAN2007 and only had the A340 to the end of MAR2007, I think. CA's current jet fleet are all Boeing. I believe CA is also flying some Dash-8s?

tobago express you mean?

[Faraz]

Actually in essence, all three of you, Scorpio, Gajie and BW are right.

When CAL was started on Jan 01, 2007, it began with a portion of the previous BWIA fleet which included the Airbus A340. The A340 is a 4-engine, long haul airplane that main purpose was the London route and occassionally Toronto.

The airline held on to this airplane only for a few months as they negotiated the sale of the Heathrow slots as well as a code share agreement with British Airways (which by the way, comes to an end next week).

Once this was complete, CAL got rid of the Airbus and was back to an all Boeing 737-800 fleet.........until October 01, 2007 when it acquired Tobago Express and its 5 Dash8-Q300 airplanes.

However, coming back to the AJ deal at hand.....CAL's Boeing 737 Fleet is the dominant type at the moment. CALs Piarco engineering base has achieved quite a lot over the last 2 years in establishing major maintenance checks of the Jets.
Piarco is a Boeing approved service center, which makes it a key player in securing the fleet type for the Air Jamaica deal.
The Airbus airplanes at Kingston are of the smaller variety, short to medium haul. Airbus A319, A320 and A321. The Airbus A320 is a direct competitor to the Boeing 737-800 that CAL uses.

Just like BWIA, Air Jamaica was forced to let go of its Airbus A340 aircraft, as well as its Heathrow slots to cut costs. Their eventual code sharer became Virgin Atlantic for flights to London.

hope that helps clear up the fleet issue.

[Starjack]

But despite all this, i heard that Caribbean Airlines is terminating the codeshare agreement with British Airways for flights to London Gatwick on the 27th of March 2010, paving the way for a direct service from Piarco International Airport to London. If that's true CA might bring back A340 or use other wide body aircrafts like B767, B777 or A330 for the route. I doubt they will bring a B747 or A380 because these aircrafts are too large.

[Scorpio]

Actually in essence, all three of you, Scorpio, Gajie and BW are right.

When CAL was started on Jan 01, 2007, it began with a portion of the previous BWIA fleet which included the Airbus A340. The A340 is a 4-engine, long haul airplane that main purpose was the London route and occassionally Toronto.

The airline held on to this airplane only for a few months as they negotiated the sale of the Heathrow slots as well as a code share agreement with British Airways (which by the way, comes to an end next week).

Once this was complete, CAL got rid of the Airbus and was back to an all Boeing 737-800 fleet.........until October 01, 2007 when it acquired Tobago Express and its 5 Dash8-Q300 airplanes.

However, coming back to the AJ deal at hand.....CAL's Boeing 737 Fleet is the dominant type at the moment. CALs Piarco engineering base has achieved quite a lot over the last 2 years in establishing major maintenance checks of the Jets.
Piarco is a Boeing approved service center, which makes it a key player in securing the fleet type for the Air Jamaica deal.
The Airbus airplanes at Kingston are of the smaller variety, short to medium haul. Airbus A319, A320 and A321. The Airbus A320 is a direct competitor to the Boeing 737-800 that CAL uses.

Just like BWIA, Air Jamaica was forced to let go of its Airbus A340 aircraft, as well as its Heathrow slots to cut costs. Their eventual code sharer became Virgin Atlantic for flights to London.

hope that helps clear up the fleet issue.

Good stuff, thanks Faraz.

[gajie]

CALs Piarco engineering base has achieved quite a lot over the last 2 years in establishing major maintenance checks of the Jets.

Ahm, Faraz, weren't BWIA engineers in Piarco doing "major maintenance checks" on the 737-800 fleet before BWIA was shut down?

[Scorpio]

BWIA, which "closed down" on 31DEC2006. CA started ops on 01JAN2007

lol, gajie, I should have remembered that .....

It was funny, I left piarco on December 31, 2006 on a BWIA plane bound for NY, and I landed at JFK on Jan 1 on a CAL plane .... along the way we flew through 2 time-zones, so the changeover from BWIA to CAL kinda happened twice. lol

[Faraz]

Ahm, Faraz, weren't BWIA engineers in Piarco doing "major maintenance checks" on the 737-800 fleet before BWIA was shut down?

No, not major. Those were contracted by Delta Engineering at Atlanta.
It was Delta who eventually carried out the change over from BWIA to CAL with the paintjob/decals and addition of winglets.

[Starjack]

This was BWIA's whole fleet from 1940 to 2006:

2 Airbus A321-100
4 Lockheed L-1011 TriStar 500
7 McDonnell Douglas MD-82/83
4 McDonnell Douglas DC-9
2 Boeing 707-100
2 Boeing 727-100
1 Boeing 747-123
2 Vickers Viscount

[Scorpio]

This was BWIA's whole fleet from 1940 to 2006:

2 Airbus A321-100
4 Lockheed L-1011 TriStar 500
7 McDonnell Douglas MD-82/83
4 McDonnell Douglas DC-9
2 Boeing 707-100
2 Boeing 727-100
1 Boeing 747-123
2 Vickers Viscount

I was with yuh until de Vickers Viscount, yuh send me straight to google....

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3630/3351242792_679268d39f.jpg

[Faraz]

Would you believe we still have 1 of those Viscount pilots with us????

He's on his last year with us though. Really nice captain to fly with. Told me back in the day, they had to hop almost every island including Bermuda to get to New York on the Viscount.

A few airplanes are missing from that list though. Apart from the Viscount, this list merely mentions the Jet fleet.
BWIA had a Boeing 737-700 for about a year around 1999 while they were transitioning from the MD-83s to the Boeing 737-800s.

BWee Express had Dash8s, and Hawker HS-748s (commonly known as the Avro's) that they acquired when they absorbed the then airbridge carrier TTAS (T&T Air Services).

Here are two cool images.

BWIA Avro
http://www.airliners.net/photo/BWIA-Airbridge/Hawker-Siddeley-HS-748/0078852/M/

BWIA/Air Jamaica "hybrid" 727. This airplane was used in the late 60's when BWIA helped establish the original Air Jamaica. Funny how things have come full circle.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/BWIA---British/Boeing-727-78/0198757/M/

[Scorpio]

Would you believe we still have 1 of those Viscount pilots with us????

He's on his last year with us though. Really nice captain to fly with. Told me back in the day, they had to hop almost every island including Bermuda to get to New York on the Viscount.



Wow, very interesting indeed. Cool pics too.

[Starjack]

I realize that the BWIA's fleet list that i brought up is missing 2 Airbus A340s.

[Faraz]

On a couple other aviation forums, the whole CAL/AJ deal has turned into quite a chaos between the Trinis and Jamaicans.

Both parties pretty much want the whole deal to fail and it looks like the Jamaicans are rallying enormous support from the diaspora.

The Jamaican PM is saying it's too late for any new solution, but who knows eh?

The Jamaican pilot union, JALPA, is determined that they can start their own carrier.

Its turning into one big mess now.

[Scorpio]

On a couple other aviation forums, the whole CAL/AJ deal has turned into quite a chaos between the Trinis and Jamaicans.

.

I was having fun with a Jamacian friend with this, joking about how we will only be servin trini food on AJ planes and we will paint a big steepan on all ah dem .... but then i realise de girl not taking dat as joke so ah had to kill de talk fass and change de topic.

[Starjack]

I was having fun with a Jamacian friend with this, joking about how we will only be servin trini food on AJ planes and we will paint a big steepan on all ah dem .... but then i realise de girl not taking dat as joke so ah had to kill de talk fass and change de topic.

Jamaicans rather scrutinize us Trinis and not their government for the selling of AJ. It is something that gets me mad when i see it in these forums that i have to respond back and defend my country.

[Starjack]

Oh great. They push back the date from 12th of April to the 30th of April when CAL suppose to take over Air Jamaica.