New Approaches In Deceiving Hindus

[brag]

They will leave no stone unturned in order to deceive simple Hindus who are not always concerned about the intellectual side of Hinduism.

They are inventing new tricks as they intensify their proselytizing schemes. They are tired of using Hindu statues that sink and Christians ones that float. Now they are using Maya as the meaning of the original sin of Adam and Eve to tell Hindus that ignorance is the same as original sin of Hindus, and that Hindus too believe in original sin as it is contained in Hindu scriptures and they can prove it. Jesus is the answer they are conveying to Hindus. These scheming miserable minds will not leave Hindus alone.

The Muslims are also saying that Mohammed was predicted in Hindus scriptures, and are doing the same with their chief proselytizer of Hindus, Dr Zakir Naik who is going all over the place telling Hindus that Mohammed was foretold in Hindu scriptures, and misrepresenting Hindu scriptures. That has taken a new life of its own.

This is a new approach from "break down your Jhandis" used in Trinidad or you all are Devil worshippers. They are now studying Hindu scriptures and misrepresenting the meaning to Hindus. These are only a few tricks I can remember, as I had not been collecting this kind of information before, but I urge all Hindus to keep vigil for this kind of new trickery by Christians and Muslims who proselytize among Hindus.

Below are two fascinating links which present some interesting information about some new turns in proselytizing among Hindus.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Hindus-946/2009/3/Evil-4.htm

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14488118/Muha ... Scriptures (http://www.scribd.com/doc/14488118/Muhammad-is-Not-Predicted-in-Hindu-Scriptures)

[grapesweetie]

Brag, it all comes down to knowing your religion and your faith in it...


things like this work on people who are ignorant of the religion on a whole...but then again, maybe they were never comfortable with Hinduism in the first place.
There are so many resources available now, if someone tells me something about Hinduism, I usually check the net, or ask my guru...
I would say someone who doesnt want to take that much of an effort isnt interested.

[brag]

I hear you, grape. Thanks for the reassurance.

[Falcon]

These scheming miserable minds will not leave Hindus alone. one love :)

[brag]

Unpreparedness for self defense is himsa or violence. The battle of kurukshethra was ahimsa or non violence when justice was the objective. Ask your own Jesus who said to turn the other cheek in one breath, but also said that he did not come to make peace, but to turn family members against each other. One love?

[Falcon]

Of course one love........it was simply a metaphor to reinforce the first commandment.

[brag]

Of course one love even in deception because all it take is to call Him into your heart and keep on doing the same.

[Falcon]

the beauty and simplicity of forgiveness my friend. No jumping through hoops, no howling at the moon 234543 times, no self-mutilation.

[brag]

Oh yes, the beauty and simplicity of forgiveness, that same forgiveness of which Jesus and Prophet Mohammed spoke.

While Jesus sends them to Hell to burn for ever, Allah goes further and allows them to grow new flesh to burn for eternity after that blessed day of judgement when forgiveness is no more.

Oh Lord, how beautiful and simple is that kind of forgiveness!

[Falcon]

Free choice my friend, free choice. Forgiveness is freely given to anyone who will receive it. Even you.

[brag]

Some kind of free choice when God as Jesus gives himself a life of eternity, but gives man one life and if he fails in that one life, he is sent to Hell for eternity. Some kind of justice and free choice.

So where is the forgiveness of your model, Jesus, in the Temple when he turned over the tables, and where is his forgiveness when he preached he did not come to make peace, but to divide families?

[Falcon]

I dealt with the latter already. Put aside some of the seething rage and re read my post above.

Forgiveness in the temple?? But who was repenting?!? :lol:
Think you better read that book again brag. Stay off the 'hinduism accepts everything under the sun, except Christianity' websites........

[Huma]

Real passive-aggressive proselytism in this thread, boy. Wow. Condescension in abundance.

[brag]

Please take note that the rage is yours Falcon, not mine. I always take the time to read your threads and posts as I value your thoughts and opinions, but it does not mean I have to agree with you or let you go by with your misuderstandings of what I write.

But watch carefully how your rage expresses itself off and on as control in your wish not to argue with me, but recently exploded as a tirade of being sick and tired of my not listening to you as if I am a student and you are my teacher. So kindly try and not project your own rage on me and call it mine.

Look Falcon how you turned the entire discussion about distorting Hindu philosophy to one of love and simple forgiveness, using only my description of the minds involved in deceiving rather than about the deceit and distortion themselves.

Apparently the deceit and distortion have no relevance to you, so you contrived up an argument for dealing with the entire thread in a style that comes across as a pattern which I once brought to your attention.

Do you ever wonder about one love and simple forgiveness when you ban people for life from participating on the forum for violations of forum rules and sometimes also for deceit. No, you are free from blame on the grounds of following forum rules that are just and fair, but which excludes one love and simple forgiveness. And now you wonder about forgiveness in the Temple.

So similarly, how does love and simple forgiveness factor in this thread that describes a situation whose point is about leaving Hindus alone, the distortion of a Hindu philosophy and for Hindus to be vigilant in identifying more of such situations for preparedness in encountering and understanding newly developed means by Christians for penetrating Hindu society for the purpose of proselytizing.

[Falcon]

So similarly, how does love and simple forgiveness factor in this thread that describes a situation whose point is about leaving Hindus alone, the distortion of a Hindu philosophy and for Hindus to be vigilant in identifying more of such situations for preparedness in encountering and understanding newly developed means by Christians for penetrating Hindu society for the purpose of proselytizing.


first of all, one love, good Monday mornin, and a great week is wished upon all. :mrgreen:

brag, Huma and his intransigence aside, I will deal with your last paragraph since it's the only one I see that I can address. The others are steeped in misinformation to the extent that I cant help this morning since as you pointed out, you're no student of mine. (reminds me of a Phil Collins song)

the point I was making was that you believe all roads lead to one destination, and you have a live and let live attitude toward all religious persuasions, except one. You persistently claim that yoga, hinduism, etc etc have all the answers a person can ever need, and yet still have some rage towards people who choose another way, incidentally as you would claim, to the same destination. That confuses me.

on forgiveness, even God says the longsuffering will have an end. In what way does your logic incorporate forgiveness in the Temple?

[brag]

Falcon, your own argument about love and simple forgiveness directed me to reference the temple of Jerusalem. Did Jesus forgive the occupants for their misuse and deception of the people by using the temple as a trading post? No, he cursed them and chased them out as bunch of thieves and deceivers.

[Falcon]

and brag, I asked you before, is forgiveness something that comes when you ask for it, or is it something with which someone burdens you? I also asked you in what way does your (brag's) logic about forgiveness have set the story up if you were in charge?

also, can a person convert to Hinduism?

[brag]

Forgiveness requres no asking. Continued interaction is forgiveness. Did I say I forgive you for your rage in the earlier tirade? No, it was not necessary, as I let it go by. No harm was done to me, but only to you and for that you may seek forgiveness if it is burdensome to you. I did not accept your rage, as I was not attached to the issue. That is what forgiveness means to me. I can say I forgive you to ease the burden on you because you realized you wronged someone, but when you keep on doing the same, what is the point of forgiveness? The best answer is to stay from the person and pray for his healing.

[Falcon]

can say I forgive you to ease the burden on you because you realized you wronged someone, but when you keep on doing the same, what is the point of forgiveness?
:salut: Temple forgiveness lesson summarised.
Forgiveness given to one who doesnt ask for or need it only serves to please conscience of the one who has forgiven. You agree?

[brag]

No, I don't agree. Forgiveness is like "Darshan." Only presence or silence as communication is necessary and can bring about healing.

[grapesweetie]

They are inventing new tricks as they intensify their proselytizing schemes. They are tired of using Hindu statues that sink and Christians ones that float. Now they are using Maya as the meaning of the original sin of Adam and Eve to tell Hindus that ignorance is the same as original sin of Hindus, and that Hindus too believe in original sin as it is contained in Hindu scriptures and they can prove it. Jesus is the answer they are conveying to Hindus. These scheming miserable minds will not leave Hindus alone.




i thought christians dont believe in idols :?
that alone should be a red flag

[brag]

The Catholics believe in Idol worship and they are the ones doing that in India. They all condemn Idol worship, but practice it in one way or another but not as extensively as Hindus do. Hindus worship the Divine in the deity while Chrisitans worship the Deity in the Divine.

[brag]

Please don't mistake my objection to Christian proselytizing and salvation only in Jesus as hostility towards Christianity.

I was surrounded by Christian teachings almost all my life and embrace most of them except salvation only in Jesus and the concept of Hell.

My root is Hinduism as a way of life, and I will never abandon my roots regardless of where I live. I accept Jesus just as another deity of God like Rama, Krishna and Sai Baba.

[brag]

The link below presents some interesting information about deceptive Christian proselytizing in India also involving the CIA (Google the Joshua Project). I extracted a few paragraphs of the article, but the entire article is worth reading. As the author said, "If Christian missionaries want to come to India and try to make converts to Christianity, let them come with empty pockets and compete on a level playing field. And if most of the locals don't want the missionaries interfering with their traditional way of life, they have the right to make the missionaries and their converts leave.

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/ ... otect.html (http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2009/03/india-as-hindu-nation-to-protect.html)

Missionaries are Colonialists
Gregory F. Fegel

This was originally posted on Pravda: http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/106593-0/
Christian missionaries make no secret of the fact that they use medical services, education, and employment opportunities to lure impoverished indigenous populations throughout the world into conversion to Christianity.

Currently there is no officially Hindu State anywhere in the world, but perhaps India should become a Hindu State in order to protect its indigenous religion and culture from the predatory missionaries and State-sponsored cultural Imperialism that are coming from both Christian and Moslem countries. If the Jews have the right to establish and maintain Israel as a Jewish State, then the Hindus certainly have a right to establish and maintain India as a Hindu State.

When Western leaders talk about a "Clash of Civilizations", what they really mean is Judeo-Christianity and corporate Capitalism versus all non-Christians and non-Capitalists. Christian missionaries are essentially colonialists working for Christian cultural Imperialism.

When the Hindus of India rise up in riot and drive out the Christian missionaries and the Christian "cash converts", they are doing what the Iraqi, Afghani, and Palestinian Freedom Fighters are doing. They are protecting themselves and their indigenous culture from wealthy and unscrupulous invaders who have no respect for them or their culture.

I wish the Hindu nationalists well in their efforts to defend and maintain the independence and survival of their indigenous culture and religion against the onslaught of predatory and disrespectful foreigners whose goal is to replace indigenous traditional cultures with a global Christian empire.

If Christian missionaries want to come to India and try to make converts to Christianity, let them come with empty pockets and compete on a level playing field. And if most of the locals don't want the missionaries interfering with their traditional way of life, they have the right to make the missionaries and their converts leave.

[Falcon]

First of all there are loads of rich Hindus all over the world, and indeed 'at home' in India. Let the playing field be even by all means, but when the missionaries are doing a public service with basic heath care, education, housing, then let the Hindus step up and compete. It's shocking that you'd prefer the poor indigenous population to be denied basic human rights in order to remain hindu. By the way, is there no place for missionaries showing these people another way, and these people attaining more 'self awareness' and 'self realisation' and being able to choose for themselves? I guess it doesnt work in this case, does it....... :|

Keep them poor, ill, uneducated and under your feet hey?
You said it brag, India isn't a Hindu state. So why do 'people' treat it as one?

And you bold to say if Indian Hindus convert, then they should leave India..... :lol: I guess you have more right than converts to 'be Indian'. :) Look, this reminds me of something Sumana said a few years ago- one Miss India contestant was criticised as not 'looking like an Indian' so I asked what does an Indian look like, and she said, "like me" :D

'Christian cash converts' brag? A quick look at the books will show that other christians fund these projects and certainly not the principles of tithing which some of the poor converts adopt.

[letric]

Be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath
For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness
of God
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of
naughtiness, and receive with meekness the
engrafted word, which is able to save your souls,
Be ye be doers of the word, and not hearers only
deceiving your own selves.
For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he
is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a
glass:
For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way and
straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

[letric]

If any man among you seem to be religious, and
bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own
heart, this man's religion is vain.
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father
is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their
affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the
world.
James ch1, v.26

[brag]

The link below documents some interesting information about the implications of Christian proselytizing in India. The entire article is worth careful study. Like in politics where cash for votes has a long history, cash for converts is new and has found its way in Christian proselytizing.

http://www.infinityfoundation.com/ECITp ... ameset.htm (http://www.infinityfoundation.com/ECITproselytizingframeset.htm)

The Ethics of Proselytizing
by Rajiv Malhotra

Presented at the Cornell University Conference on 'Human Rights and Religion'

What are the Motives?

Driven by quantitative rather than qualitative spiritual improvement, many Christian churches analyze their predicament as follows:

Secularism and pluralism in the West have eroded their flock size.
Clergy is aging, as young persons are entering religion less frequently than before. In France, often many villages have to share one preacher.
There is less active church participation per thousand members than before.
Members are less compliant than before about church policies.
Increased international travel, information, and education have made the public more introspective and thinking for themselves.

Christian churches are unhappy not only when their members become non-Christians, but they get upset when a member of one church leaves to join another Christian church - flock-stealing. The Pope has said that his visit to South America was to protect his flock from the 'rapacious wolves' of evangelical Protestantism. The whole thing is a game of power, and maintaining a hold on one's flock. There is nothing even remotely spiritual in this program.

To replenish these negative trends, the Churches have looked for the export market. However, China is too closed politically for aggressive proselytizing. Muslim countries outright deny such privileges to the church, and it is considered too risky to 'take on' Islam.

Hence, India's billion soul potential market is too big a temptation not to go after. Poverty, gullibility and traditional openness towards strangers in Hinduism makes it vulnerable to predatory tactics. Constitutional pluralism of India allows easy entry. The diversity within Hinduism has been taken advantage of by many proselytizers. Most Americans are naïve about their understanding of the dynamics of India's religious scene, and would find it hard to believe what goes on in the name of American exported Christianity there.

Religions are often becoming commercial 'brands' competing for market share, selling the 'positive' product of God's love and the 'negative' product of insurance from hell.

[Falcon]

Christian churches are unhappy not only when their members become non-Christians, but they get upset when a member of one church leaves to join another Christian church - flock-stealing.

would that be all christain churches brag, a majority, some, a minority, which is it? :|

why is a Hindu termed 'gullible' if they embrace the Gospel? Why not 'enlightened' or 'exercised free choice'?

the article is patently dumb, since it seems to say that because flocks are getting smaller in the west, churches are padding members in the east.

it speaks volumes that you haven't addressed my earlier questions concerning level playing fields.

[brag]

Falcon, the only volume is in your acceptance of Christian and Muslim missionary colonialism that still continues to brainwash people and leave scars with which people everywhere are still trying to cope. Foreign money enables poor people to trade in ther religion as cash for clunkers.

[Falcon]

and again, you evaded my question with a herring ;)

brainwash people? give examples beyond those which may be comparable to sati and self flaggelation (?)

scars? as above give examples

you may want to address the earlier questions before you tackle the latter

[brag]

Falcon, red herrings must be your favorite fish.

[Falcon]

Is Friday evening.......

the weekend and glorious weather beckon

let's resume this discussion on Monday

have a nice weekend

[brag]

Self pity or self flagellation cannot be found in any modern scriptures. It may be a sociological phenomena in certain societies and linked to religious events, but they are not to be found in present day scriptures. Some Christians flagellate themselves on Good Friday, some Muslims during Moharran and some Hindus in Tantric occult practices. At the shrine of Fatima, you can see people walking on their bleeding knees a quarter mile away from the shrine.

Sati is also not a religious phenomena. It, too, is sociological and not scriptural. Sati, as a sociological phenomena, was outlawed in India many years ago.

Some women, especially among the Rajput class, the defenders of India, believed in Sati as valor when their husbands died. It may have had its origin when widows lay besides the dead on the funeral pyre as symbolism for receiving permission from their beloved ones to remarry.

But Falcon, what is preventing you from starting your own threads on these interests of yours? I may be wrong, but I don't see sati and self flagellation in this thread.

[Amelia]

:shock:
Lets see, the discussion is about the ignorance of some hindus and how christians use it to their advantage?!
What about the hindu leaders and authorities and deliberately perpetuate ignorance?!
If ur concern is about your congregation then seek to empower them with knowlege that they would not be so easily 'fooled' by others.
But no. The ignorant will always be mere pawns of those in power. And if christians can make their promises of salvation more palatable and appealing then thats the way the world turns.
Feeding the poor and housing the homeless is hardly a new strategy nor is it the sole domain of christians. The Ramakrishna movement guy - Sri Prabhupada? He fed the hungry brofre preaching to them his gospel.
Besides, Falcs does have a point - hindus do believe that all roads lead to the same destination onec followed with true faith.

[brag]

Sanatana Dharma is the most ancient spiritual tradition known to humanity. Sanatana Dharma is the Eternal Natural Way. There was never a time when Dharma did not exist, nor shall it ever cease to be.

Dharma itself, being an eternal manifestation of God's grace, can never come to an end. Despite this fact, however, Dharma can periodically disappear from our own limited vision at certain times in history when the majority of humanity chooses to dedicate their lives to selfish material pursuit, rather than to the pursuit of Truth. Our current era is precisely one of those dark times in global history in which our society has turned its collective back on the life-giving principles of Dharma.

In order to end the widespread suffering, sense of meaninglessness, economic decline, social chaos, spiritual confusion, as well as ethical and moral degeneracy that we are witnessing today, we must revive Sanatana Dharma. And we must do so now.

As our direct response to challenge of the negative energies of our dark era, known as the Kali Yuga, it is incumbent upon those of us who are still dedicated to upholding Dharmic principles to do everything in our power to revitalized Dharmic civilization today. Dharma forms the very basis of justice, peace, social harmony, positive culture, enlightenment, health, and all meaningful progress.

It is stated in the sacred Mahabharata: dharmo rakshati rak****aha, "Those who preserve Dharma are likewise protected by Dharma."

THE CENTER FOR DHARMA STUDIES (CDS)
A Hindu Ashram with a Global Mission

[Falcon]

In order to end the widespread suffering, sense of meaninglessness, economic decline, social chaos, spiritual confusion, as well as ethical and moral degeneracy that we are witnessing today, we must revive Sanatana Dharma.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!oi mi belly! :roll:

when 'hell' freezes over my friend........then you'll see end of suffering, and establishment of justice in India........them hindu nationalist parties know a thing or two about keeping poor people in their cast...err I mean place ;)

[brag]

Keep on laughing my friend. It will only remind me of the laughing Hyena. We will have the last laugh, but neither you nor I will be around, so we can discuss that in Heaven.

[Falcon]

yes, we (you and I) can discuss it later....

but who is the 'we' in having the last laugh....that sounds scary :? Mob stuff......

[brag]

Of course not you. We Hindus.

[Falcon]

We the hindus??
:shock:
But if you go India them real bramhins gwine spit on you.......you not in their 'class'. Them will want to know who is this chamar trying to be 'in ting'. No 'one love' there...no sirrrrrreeeee :)

[brag]

I will deal with that, as I will wash their feet and drink the water. You would not know anything about that.

[Falcon]

bottoms up then!

(ah goin listen to KLAS radio about the new west indian pro league....as ebbs does say toodledoo) :mrgreen:

[brag]

I am listening to Heritage Radio as I communicate with you.

[Falcon]

what's heritage radio? Trini?

[brag]

Learn something about Hinduism on Radio Heritage or Jaagriti every night at about 7 p.m. Some beautiful Kathas are presented by some learned pundits every night. I switch only between these two stations.

http://www.triniradio.net/1027radiojaagriti.html

[brag]

The propagation of Sanathana Dharma in the US is explained by Sri Acharyaji, Dr Frank Morales of Omaha, Nebraska. There are people all over the world like Dr Morales propagating and teaching the spirituality of Sanathana Dharma. The uplift of man from the worst forms of poverty like deceit, corruption, greed, delusion, hoarding, etc., is central to Sanathana Dharma for bringing man back to the ideal of shinging examples, living only on the grace of God with a cap on ceiling on desires.

Dharma Central
http://www.youtube.com/user/DharmaNation