View Full Version : The Vedas
W e often speak about the Vedas as if we know and fully understand them. But it is believed that most of the Vedas are not even seen by most Hindus. It is said that work is still being done in correctly translating and understanding all of the Vedas, and that most of the translations of the Vedas by Max Muller, Jones and others were done not for the love of knowledge, but with a special purpose of denigrating the Vedas as the scriptures of the Hindus by the British and replacing them with the Bible for converting Hindus.
http://agniveer.com/vedas/must-know-facts-about-vedas/
‘Must-know’ facts about Vedas
By Agniveer on June 30, 2008
Oldest knowledge to humankind: Even the most skeptic researcher has found no credible evidence to date the Vedas. Whatever attempts made to prove Vedas to have an origin date are based merely on one or more of the following:
World must have begun after Genesis as given by Bible. Hence Vedas must be later than that
Man must have been primitive several thousand years ago. Hence Vedas must be later than that (The fact remains that despite so much of publicity everywhere, including text-books of children and students, there is not one single credible, authoritative evidence – be it in archaeology or otherwise – that can establish the fancy early-man theory and that of evolution of humans from apes from algae from dust etc. Similar is the hoax of Aryan Invasion Theory and that Vedas are compilations of songs sung by shepherds. We shall expose the truth of these fictions sometime later)
Note: It is a matter of grave concern that this theory of evolution has been imbibed in every human right from childhood despite it having no authenticity or scientific backing. This subconscious belief in humans being merely an evolved physiochemical reaction and nothing more, is single-most reason for all perverted behaviors we observe among us and others – criminal tendencies, lose morals, disbelief in ethics etc – in some way or other. Because if it is all a physiochemical reaction alone, how you explain something as Right or Wrong. (We shall discuss this in detail later)
The language of different chapters of Vedas is different. Hence those portions must have been written during times when similar language is observed in other texts.
Vedas contain a word which was used as synonym of Gold in recent times. Thus Vedas must have been written after that.
Vedas contain word Ganga, Yamuna, Saraswati. Hence they must have been written when Saraswati river existed. This is like saying Mahabharat must have been written recently because it contains mention of Arjun Singh and Lal Krishna Advani!
In summary, all the reasons provided to date Vedas are based on making the conclusion first (that Vedas are of recent origin) and then trying to cook up reasons. Similar to many corporates deciding to fix the profit numbers first and then preparing the accounts accordingly. The fact however remains that no one ever could date Vedas. All ancient most texts claim Vedas to be ever-present since inception.
Not one syllable can be altered from Vedas. The way the oldest knowledge of humankind has been preserved is such that even an alteration of one syllable, leave mantra or chapter, can be tracked. Please read http://www.satyavidya.org/must-read/unchangeable-vedas for more details.
Vedas contain no history. The words in Vedas are to be interpreted as per fundamental roots of words and not later-dated common usages. For example “Gau” in Vedas refers to “moveable” among other meanings and hence cannot be interpreted to be “cow” in all mantras. We shall discuss this aspect in detail soon.
Vedas contain all forms of fundamental knowledge – physics, chemistry, medicines, sociology, mathematics, theology, engineering etc etc.
Vedas are strongly against any discrimination based on caste, gender or birth. They strongly advocate meritocracy.
Vedas are strongly against any form of superstition, idol-worship or fatalism and advocate potential for free-will and extracting results through efforts.
Vedas describe no rituals or steps or images for worship. They provide the basic concepts that should logically form foundation of any worship.
Vedas respect all life-forms and are against any sort of killing for selfish desires. All those claims of Vedas containing beef-eating, animal sacrifices in Yajnas etc are blatant hoaxes propagated by semi-literate self-proclaimed scholars.
Vedas are written in Vedic Sanskrit (not conventional Sanskrit) which is mother of all languages of the world.
The Vedas are relevant to all geographies of world and all periods and not restricted to a particular geography or period like Quran or Bible.
Each mantra of Vedas can have several meanings – spiritual, social, physical etc. The interpretation of mantras requires contemplation, purity of mind and a yogic lifestyle as essential ingredients. Without that one can only be expected to misinterpret Vedas as exemplified by several meat-eating, alcohol consuming, lustful living, materialistic, egoist self-proclaimed Vedic scholars of modern times. More so because one cannot cook up meanings of Vedic mantras as per later-period usages and conventions.
The Vedic translations of almost all western scholars like Max Muller, Wilson, Griffith, Jones etc are simply trash items. One should be wary of using this junk for discovering Vedas.
We shall elaborate on each of these points in subsequent articles and provide a completely objective, rational, logical and scientific framework for discovering Vedas and transforming our lives in process.
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Agniveer
If I am not mistaken, I believe the Rig and Yajur Vedas do prescribe some rituals and are understood by most Hindu priests and scholars. Perhaps the reference to no rituals in the Vedas may be about ritualistic God image worship which may have been introduced later in worship.
The following link below is an atempt to demonstrate how the Vedas are unalterable. There are research to show that over about fifteen hundred years of foreign rule over India, the Vedas may have been altered, but the alterations are noticeable becasue of some writings that do not change in style.
http://www.satyavidya.org/must-read/unchangeable-vedas
How Vedas remain unchanged even after millions of years..
Written by Agniveer
Vedas are unalterable
(READ THIS CAREFULLY IF YOU HAVE QUERY ON HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT VEDAS ARE UNALTERABLE SINCE AGES.)
On how Vedas have been preserved in pristine state, here are some analytical, unbiased and objective pointers. As true soldiers of vedas, let us accept truth and reject false after thorough and rigorously scientific analysis and not out of mere conjectures. I provide here some details on how Vedas have been preserved so purely and how its not possible to alter even a single syllable. No other text in the world can claim to have such fail-safe method of preservation. So while one can doubt purity of other texts, same is not true in case of Vedas. Our forefathers devised a number of methods to preserve the unwritten Vedas in their original form, to safeguard their tonal and verbal purity.
They laid down rules to make sure that not a syllable was changed in chanting, not a svara was altered. In this way they ensured that the full benefits were derived from intoning the mantras. They fixed the time taken to enunciate each syllable of a word and called this unit of time or time interval "matra*"uot; . how we must regulate our breathing to produce the desired vibration in a particular part of our body so that the sound of the syllable enunciated is produced in its pure form: even this is determined in the Vedanga called Siksa. The similarities and differences between the svaras of music and of
the Vedas are dealt with. So those differences between the sounds voiced by birds and animals on the one hand and the Vedic svaras on the other. With all this the right way is shown for the intonation of Vedic mantras.
A remarkable method was devised to make sure that words and syllables are not altered. According to this the words of a mantra are strung together in different patterns like "vakya", "pada", "karma", "jata", "mala", "sikha", "rekha", "dhvaja", "danda", "ratha", "ghana".
We call some Vedic scholars "ghanapathins", don't we? It means they have learnt the chanting of the scripture up to the advanced stage called "ghana". "Pathin" means one who has learnt the "patha". When we listen to ghanapathins chant the ghana, we notice that he intones a few words of a mantra in different ways, back and forth. It is most
delightful to the ear, like nectar poured into it. The sonority natural to Vedic chanting is enhanced in ghana. Similarly, in the other methods of chanting like karma, jata, sikha, mala, and so on the intonation is nothing less than stately, indeed divine. The chief
purpose of such methods, as already mentioned, is to ensure that even not even a syllable of a mantra is altered to the slightest extent. The words are braided together, so to speak, and recited back and forth.
In "vakyapatha" and "samhitapatha" the mantras are chanted in the original (natural) order, with no special pattern adopted. In the vakyapatha some words of the mantras are joined together in what is called "sandhi". There is sandhi in Tamil also; but in English the words are not joined together. You have many examples of sandhi in the Tevaram, Tiruvachakam, Tirukkural, Divyaprabandham and other Tamil works. Because of the sandhi the individual words are less recognisable in Sanskrit than even in Tamil. In padapatha each word in a mantra is clearly separated from the next. It comes next to
samhitapatha and after it is kramapatha. In this the first word of a mantra is joined to the second, the second to the third, the third to the fourth, and so on, until we come to the final word.
In old inscriptions in the South we find the names of some important people of the place concerned mentioned with the appellation "kramavittan" added to the names. "Kramavittan" is the Tamil form of "kramavid" in the same way as "Vedavittan" is of "Vedavid". We learn from the inscriptions that such Vedic scholars were to be met throughout the Tamil country.
In jata patha, the first word of the mantra is chanted with the second, then the order is reversed-the second is chanted with the first. Then, again, the first word is chanted with the second, then the second with the third, and so on. In this way the entire mantra is
chanted, going back and forth. In sikhapatha the pattern consists of three words of a mantra, instead of the two of jata.
Ghanapatha is more difficult than these. There are four types in this method. Here also the words of a mantra are chanted back and forth and there is a system of permutation and combination in the chanting. To explain all of it would be like conducting a class of arithmetic.
We take all kinds of precautions in the laboratory, don't we, to protect a life-saving drug? The sound of the Vedas guards the world against all ills. Our forefathers devised these methods of chanting to protect the sound of our scripture against change and distortion.
Samhitapatha and padapatha are called "prakrtipatha" (natural way of chanting) since the words are recited only once and in their natural order. The other methods belong to the "vikrtipatha" (artificial way of chanting) category. (In krama, though the words do not go in the strict natural order of one-two-three, there is no reversal of the words-the first after the second, the second after the third, and so on. So we cannot describe it fully as vikrtipatha). Leaving out krama, there are eight vikrti patterns and they are recounted in verse to be easily remembered.
Jata mala sikha rekha dhvaja dando ratho ghanah
Ityastau-vikrtayah proktah kramapurva maharsibhih
All these different methods of chanting are meant to ensure the tonal and verbal purity of the Vedas for all time. In pada the words in their natural order, in krama two words together, in jata the words going back and forth. The words tally in all these methods of chanting and there is the assurance that the original form will not be altered.
The benefits to be derived from the different ways of chanting are given in this verse.
Samhitapathamatrena yatphalam procyate budhaih
Padu tu dvigunam vidyat krame tu ca caturgunam
Varnakrame satagunam jatayantu sahasrakam
Considering that our ancestors took so much care to make sure that the sound of the Vedas did not undergo the slightest change, it is futile for modern researchers to try to establish the date of our scriptures by finding out how the sounds of its words have changed.
What more, today different schools of Vedas exist in south who memorize vedas in different means, as explained above. And if you compare the mantras memorized by different schools, you will find variation of not a single syllable. Remember we are talking lacs of syllables!! And still no variations. Thats why even Max Muller, a
bitter critic of Vedic philosophy, could also not help but state that such a foolproof method of preservation is among the greatest wonders and miracles of the world!
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http://www.geocities.com/profvk/srutipage2.html
This page is to give a faint glimpse of how the vedas in spite of its massive content, (Rg veda and Yajur veda have 153,826 words 109,287 words respectively) have been preserved from generation to generation though it was all done only by oral transmission. All this has been preserved (till today) (at least three millenia acc. To western calculations) without ever putting them into writing. This must be considered a great lingusitic achievement of which India can be legitimately proud. The literature, which consists of diverse poetical and prose compositions were simply learnt by rote, the
training being given by the teacher saying each word or combinations of words once with the proper incantations (called svaras) and the students saying it twice. They then learnt to recite it in continuous form along with the incantations. The continuous recitation of a vedic text is called samhita pAtha. The accuracy of the text is preserved by resorting to an artifice of nine different techniques or modes of recital.
The first is the pada pATha, which simply recites each word of the text separately; pada means word; pAtha means reading.The euphonic changes that occurs from the samhita pATha to the pada pATha is itself very technical (Sanskrit grammar would be crucial here) but makes sense. In addition, there are eight other techniques of recitation,
the sole purpose of each is to preserve the original samhita text without the loss or addtion of a single syllable or svara. The svaras are a significant part of the recital of the vedas, whatever be the mode. The eight modes are called:
krama, jaTa, ghana, mAlA, ratha, SikhA, daNDa and rekhA.
In each mode the order of recital of the words is specified as a particular permutation of their original sequence. We give below a sentence from the Yajur veda, obviously without the svaras, in its original samhita pATha form, also its pada text and then the order of the words in the ghana recital. A pundit who has learnt the Ghana recital of one complete veda (he takes thirteen years of whole time work to reach that stage) is called a ghana-pAThi.
First we give the rule for the ghana mechanics of recitation: If the original order of words in a sentence is:
1/2/3/4/5
The ghana recital goes as follows:
12/21/123/321/123/
23/32/234/432/234/
34/43/345/543/345/
45/54/45/
5 iti 5.
Example: samhita sentence:
eshAm purushANAm-eshAm paSUnAM mA bher-mA ro-mo eshAM kincanAmamat //
Meaning:
Oh God! Do not frighten these our men and animals, may none of these perish or lack health.
pada text:
eshAM/purushANAM/eshAM/paSUnAM/mA/bheH/mA/arah/mo-iti-mo/eshAM/
kim/chana/Amamat/Amamad-ity-Amamat/
Note: The ninth break here and the last break are the results of a technicality which you may ignore, unless you want to specialise in this art.
Now for the ghana recital(without the svaras; with the svaras it would be a delight to hear). The recital is a non-stop recital, except for a half-pause at the place shown by / . There is no break anywhere else. The hyphens shown are for requirements of those who can decipher the grammar ; they will not be reflected in the recital.
eshAM-purushANAM-purushANAm-eshAm-eshAM purushANAm-eshAm-eshAm
purushANAm-eshAm-eshAm purushANAm-eshAM /
purushANAm-eshAm-eshAM purushANAM purushANAm-eshAM paSUnAM
paSunAm-eshAm purushANAm purushANAm-eshAM paSUnAM /
eshAM paSUnAM paSUnAm-eshAm-eshAM paSUnAm-mA mA paSUnAm-eshAm-eshAM paSUnAm-mA /
paSUnAm-mA mA paSUnAM paSUnAm-mA bher-bher-mA paSUnAM paSUnAm-mA bheH /
mA bher-bher-mAmA bher-mAmA bher-mAmA bher-mA /
bher-mAmA bher-bher-mAro aro mA bher-bhermA araH /
mA ro aro mAmA ro momo aro mA mA ro mo /
aro mo mo aro aro mo eshAm-eshAm mo aro aro mo eshAM /
mo eshAm-eshAm mo mo eshAm kim kim-eshAm-mo mo eshAm kim / mo iti mo/
eshAm kimkim-eshAmeshAM kim-cana cana kim-esham-eshaM kim-cana /
kim cana cana kim kim canAmamad-Amamat cana kim kim canAmamat /
canAmamad-Amamac-cana canAmamat /
Amamad-ityAmamat /
The significant point to note here is that in Sanskrit the order of words does not matter. If you do it with an English sentence like:
Rama vanquished Ravana
It will go like this:
Rama vanquished vanquished Rama Rama vanquished Ravana 'Ravana vanquished Rama' Rama vanquished Ravana … and so on.
You can see the absurdity now. In Sanskrit this absurdity would not arise. So a ghana recitation is supposed to be equivalent to a recitation of the veda 13 times and to that extent is multifold fruitful! The 13 is because except for two beginning and two ending
words in a sentence the others are repeated 13 tiumes. (You can check it with the word paSUnAM above).
letric
08-01-2009, 10:23 AM
Philosophers and sects that developed the Indian subcontinent have taken differing position on Vedas, in Buddhism and Jainism, the authority of the Vedas is repudiated, and both evolved into separate religions. The sects which did not explicitly reject the Vedas remain followers of the Sanatana Dharma which is known in modern times as Hinduism.
Keep in mind that neither Mahavira not the Buddha founded a religion based on God, but on non violence.
Vedic knowledge is not only for Hindus.
http://gleez.com/articles/spiritual/ved ... versal_god (http://gleez.com/articles/spiritual/vedic/20_hinduism_offers_a_universal_god)
HINDUISM OFFERS A UNIVERSAL GOD AND CONSCIOUSNESS, BEYOND A MERE LOCAL TRADITION.
Often you find a religion based on the history, background and needs or development of a regional people. But in the Vedic culture we find a universal history not only involving the people of India, but other areas of the world, as well as other planets and different dimensions of the universe. Thus the spiritual teachings that the Vedic philosophy provides are universal, for all living beings.
The Vedic path is not based on blind faith in a regional understanding of God, or the history of a particular people. It is based on the understanding that Vedic philosophy is a part of the natural laws that exist throughout the creation. Thus, they are universal laws and principles that are applicable to all. By following these natural principles, as outlined in the ancient Vedic texts, one can acquire a higher level of understanding and consciousness in which a person can directly perceive the spiritual nature of everyone and all that exists. Through this means, a person can perceive his or her own spiritual identity, and one's unity with all of creation. Therefore, the Vedic philosophy is a universal approach.
The Vedic doctrine also is beyond merely using and basing its outlook on locality. It is not merely Indian. Even though many of the events, such as those found in the Mahabharata and the Puranas , took place in India, and numerous Vedic personalities and incarnations of God had pastimes in India or live there, many of it's concerns spread outside India, and even to other planets. However, the teachings and philosophy are based on the science of the soul, which includes us all. Therefore, this knowledge of the soul is not limited to a particular region or locality. It is universal.
This also goes with knowledge of God. The Vedic outlook explains that God is not God for a particular region or area. Or that the people of a certain area must conform to a particular code of conduct or worship. God is not a Jewish God who chooses a special people to be His own. You will not find that in the Vedic tradition. In the Vedic texts you will find God who is a loving God, concerned with everyone, and not just humans, but those on other planets, those existing in the bodies of other species, even those in other universes. It doesn't matter where you are, or in what body you exist. God is concerned for you and wants you to know that, which is why He appears in this world and sends so many messengers all over the universe.
Furthermore, Hinduism is not based solely on one personality or teacher. It is not like Catholicism which has one pope who is said to be the sole authority over all other Catholics who must obey the dictates of this one man. Hinduism can and does accept the teachings of numerous spiritual guides. Even if a person is initiated by a particular spiritual teacher or guru, it is often seen that the disciples, once having clearly understood the teachings of their own master, may also consider the teachings of other advanced devotees or masters in their sampradaya , or disciplic line of authorities. In fact, it is recommended that to be sure of following the spiritual path correctly, any instructions should be compared to a system of checks and balances. These are guru (the spiritual master), sadhu (other spiritual authorities), and Shastra (the instructions in the Vedic texts). If these all line up with the same instruction, then there is no problem. If any one of them differs, then it should be investigated as to the reason why. If something is off track or not correct, then it should be adjusted. This is how one can always be sure that he or she is following the proper spiritual methods without going too far the wrong way, or without being misguided by a guru who may not be as pure or advanced as people may think. Thus, the Vedic system again provides a means for assuring yourself of the authority and potency of the method and teacher you accept.
The Vedic philosophy and religion is for all. It has a wide appeal for people of all the world.
http://gleez.com/articles/spiritual/ved ... versal_god (http://gleez.com/articles/spiritual/vedic/20_hinduism_offers_a_universal_god)
Hinduism Offers a Universal God
November 21, 2005 - 23:50 — sandeep
20. HINDUISM OFFERS A UNIVERSAL GOD AND CONSCIOUSNESS, BEYOND A MERE LOCAL TRADITION.
Often you find a religion based on the history, background and needs or development of a regional people. But in the Vedic culture we find a universal history not only involving the people of India, but other areas of the world, as well as other planets and different dimensions of the universe. Thus the spiritual teachings that the Vedic philosophy provides are universal, for all living beings.
The Vedic path is not based on blind faith in a regional understanding of God, or the history of a particular people. It is based on the understanding that Vedic philosophy is a part of the natural laws that exist throughout the creation. Thus, they are universal laws and principles that are applicable to all. By following these natural principles, as outlined in the ancient Vedic texts, one can acquire a higher level of understanding and consciousness in which a person can directly perceive the spiritual nature of everyone and all that exists. Through this means, a person can perceive his or her own spiritual identity, and one's unity with all of creation. Therefore, the Vedic philosophy is a universal approach.
The Vedic doctrine also is beyond merely using and basing its outlook on locality. It is not merely Indian. Even though many of the events, such as those found in the Mahabharata and the Puranas , took place in India, and numerous Vedic personalities and incarnations of God had pastimes in India or live there, many of it's concerns spread outside India, and even to other planets. However, the teachings and philosophy are based on the science of the soul, which includes us all. Therefore, this knowledge of the soul is not limited to a particular region or locality. It is universal.
This also goes with knowledge of God. The Vedic outlook explains that God is not God for a particular region or area. Or that the people of a certain area must conform to a particular code of conduct or worship. God is not a Jewish God who chooses a special people to be His own. You will not find that in the Vedic tradition. In the Vedic texts you will find God who is a loving God, concerned with everyone, and not just humans, but those on other planets, those existing in the bodies of other species, even those in other universes. It doesn't matter where you are, or in what body you exist. God is concerned for you and wants you to know that, which is why He appears in this world and sends so many messengers all over the universe.
Furthermore, Hinduism is not based solely on one personality or teacher. It is not like Catholicism which has one pope who is said to be the sole authority over all other Catholics who must obey the dictates of this one man. Hinduism can and does accept the teachings of numerous spiritual guides. Even if a person is initiated by a particular spiritual teacher or guru, it is often seen that the disciples, once having clearly understood the teachings of their own master, may also consider the teachings of other advanced devotees or masters in their sampradaya , or disciplic line of authorities. In fact, it is recommended that to be sure of following the spiritual path correctly, any instructions should be compared to a system of checks and balances. These are guru (the spiritual master), sadhu (other spiritual authorities), and Shastra (the instructions in the Vedic texts). If these all line up with the same instruction, then there is no problem. If any one of them differs, then it should be investigated as to the reason why. If something is off track or not correct, then it should be adjusted. This is how one can always be sure that he or she is following the proper spiritual methods without going too far the wrong way, or without being misguided by a guru who may not be as pure or advanced as people may think. Thus, the Vedic system again provides a means for assuring yourself of the authority and potency of the method and teacher you accept.
HINDU SCRIPTURES
http://www.hinduism.co.za/hindu2.htm
The Vedas are heard exactly the same way after ever kalpa or series of epochs and it never dies. It remains the law of nature and the basis of all religions everywhere based on the natural laws.
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