View Full Version : Finding Indian Roots
Have people of Indian ancestry on this forum ever wondered about their ancestors and their connections in India? Many of us never bothered to find out about those whom our grand and great grand parents left behind, and how it felt for those behind when family members left for Trinidad as indentured laborers. I remember my grand father used to write and he received mail from India, and he would be in tears after reading letters.
I use to say, when asked if I ever wanted to know relatives in India, that I hardly know all my cousins in Trinidad, so why bother to find out and meet those in India several generations away from us. But recently, out of the clear blue sky, I have developed a burning interest in knowing the place where my ancestors came from and who there may still have information about relatives who left for Trinidad.
Below is a link that may be able to provide some information about lost relatives in India. I have some of the indenture documents about my maternal grandfather who arrived in Trinidad on the Esperanza Estate in 1890. His parents names are given and the village of birth, township and county are provided. I am hoping that this information will help, and we can make some connections. Any other information you may have about finding long lost relatives in India will be appreciated.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/Technolog ... 75895.html (http://www.theage.com.au/news/Technology/India-diaspora-plans-web-hunt-for-forebears/2005/01/11/1105423475895.html)
littleone
10-25-2007, 02:59 PM
i have always wondered about this but i don't even know how to start looking. everyone in my family seems to have a conflicting story. but it would be wonderful to know. my stepfather's great grandmother and grandmother came here leaving his great grandfather behind to come on another boat. but he never came...i wonder what caused this all of the time...
Triniboy108
10-25-2007, 06:31 PM
I know for a fact that I have relatives in India. When my maternal great-grandfather came to Trinidad, he had left behind children from a previous marriage. He then got married again in Trinidad and had more children, so my grandmother actually has half-siblings in India, who don't even know about her existence, which is kind of sad. :( She has the name of the place in India where he came from, I forgot to get it from her last time I went Trinidad, I'll put that on my to-do list! :D
I never had this kind of interest in this subject before, probably because of our struggle for survival. I am suddenly experiencing a keen interest in pulling together the information about my Indian ancestry with the hope of finding connections with those left behind in India.
In 1890 my maternal great grand parents, Alyar and Pabarnee Ramdhanie and their three boys, Ramlagan 9, Sookdeo 7 and Palakdhari 2, left the village of Atila in Balia, Uttar Pradesh for identureship on the Esperanza estate in Trinidad. We have their indentureship numbers.
I believe there are indentureship records in the British archives in London and the Indian archives in Lucknow, Uttar Pradesh. The Trinidad archives for indentureship information must be housed some where. When I worked in the Red House many years ago, I saw them in the vaults there.
My maternal great grand parents later had four girls on the Esperanza Estate. They moved to Coal Mine, Sangre Grande after their indentureship was completed, and apparently Palakdhari did not come with them. As a result, we do not have much information about Palakdhari who is believed to have moved to St Helena.
The separation from Palakdhari saddens me, and I am determined to find his family in Trinidad. How many more situations there must be like this one just in Trinidad.
I am also determined to find my family connections in India. A close family friend from Freeport found their connections in Basti, Uttar Pradesh, and they take turns in journeying to India every year to maintain their family relationships.
Finding my Naani's connections and my Aaja and Aagee's connections is another matter, as we have little or no information about them. My father's connections are probably in South India, since that side of our family cooks like South Indians.
sapodila
10-26-2007, 11:24 AM
I know the feeling BRji... I myself had started searching. A fellow forumite "Rosebud" had given me the contact name in Trinidad, his name is "Shamshudin"....but that's where I stalled. I guess my folks felt that survival was most important than finding thier clan. I know that some of my folks came from North West India, since my father's family spoke fluent Urdu and Hindi, my mother's folks spoke bhojpuri.... so maybe Bihar???? Their cooking is very northern style...... I fit in very comfortable with The Northern Indians and Pakistanis I accociate with, the culture I learn as a child, the cooking, the language, the way of worship....etc., etc., when I am with the south Indians folks I feel "my place" :) . Anyways! Jaggernauth........from Guyana made a short feature film staring Kumar Gaurav call "Guiana 1838". If you all can find that movie you will be able to relate to your origins and at least get a picture or even a start as to where to look for your ancestry. Also read some of the tribulations Jaggernauthji endured to acqiure information to produce this film.
Thanks sap, I will be in Trindiad during the Christmas holiday season for my great nephew's wedding, and I will have some extra time to contact my Naana's family for more family background information. In the meantime, one of my brothers who updates our family tree is working on obtaining more information from some of the elder family members who may still retain bits and pieces of family information.
http://www.indolink.com/displayArticleS ... 2206042454 (http://www.indolink.com/displayArticleS.php?id=022206042454)
The link above provides some interesting information about the Indian Diaspora that many of us may never have heard of. It is worth a read.
Here is a link that describes some activities that led to finding ancestors in India. Mr Shamsu Deen might still be able to assist.
http://indiapost.com/article/perspective/1139/
Tracing the roots
Monday, 10.08.2007, 12:59am (GMT-7)
India Post News Service
There are thousands of Indians who went to different parts of the globe in search for new avenues and are now settled as diaspora all over. They know their forefathers belonged to India and that is about all. Today they are gripped with the urge to trace their roots back to the country. It is to this strong curiosity that Shamshu Deen caters.
A genealogist, he traces families for people who would like to create a link with their ancestral land. His career as a Genealogist began even before he knew that such a word existed. He says, "As a child I was always fascinated with conversations I had with my parents and grandparents about the arrival of my India ancestors to Trinidad.
But I decided to stick to bread & butter (roti & subjee) issues like a formal education and university and jobs and marriage and children and even emigration to Canada." But after doing Masters Degree in Education he felt he was cheating himself and chose to go back to his favourite subject. Born in Preysal, Trinidad, Shamshu Deen has contributed significantly to the area of genealogical research mainly for the East Indian Diaspora.
Through his book, Solving East Indian Roots in Trinidad (1994) he undertook the task of answering the question, where did we come from? According to Simon Lee (Freelance journalist, U.K.)," Shamshu Deen's work provides the basis not only for others to trace their ancestry but also for sociological and cultural studies at the grassroots level."
His studies at the University of the West Indies (B.A. History and Economics) and Manitoba (M.Ed. Special Education) helped to hone his research techniques. This as well as his ability to harvest the memories from the most reclusive minds makes him the ideal expert on genealogy in Trinidad. One of the surviving indentured Indians, 92-year-old Nazir Mohammed was selected by him on behalf of the Indian Government to receive one of the first awards at Pravasi Bharatiya 2003.
Deen also took him to his village of Hallaun, in Siddarth Nagar, UP to meet his relatives. Shamshu Deen was presented with the Aagaman Award in 1994 by the Indian High Commission, in Trinidad as well as a scholarship to India. He came to India in 1996-97 and found fourteen sets of relatives for Trinidad Indian families.
Of them, one was Chief Justice Mustapha Ibrahim and the other was Trinidad's Prime Minister Basdeo Panday. Panday's relatives were traced to Azamgarh, UP where a gala family reunion took place. Pundit Manideo Persad's feelings were the same when he met his second and third cousins in Pratapur in eastern UP this year.
''This search has completed a jigsaw puzzle. I now know my grandfather, Patishwar Tiwary, much better,'' says Trinidad & Tobago's High Commissioner to India. His search took a while though, as there were no records of his grandfather in the village.
He finally came to know of him when he discovered his grand aunt's family. His father was the only son and when he left, no records were kept of him. He wrote his second book based on this India project, Lineages & Linkages, Solving Trinidad Roots in India.
The Government of Trinidad presented him with a National Award, Humming Gold Medal in 1997. The BBC and Channel Four in England have used his services in researching documentaries on Genealogy.
He also appears regularly on local TV and radio. Currently he is involved in two major projects apart from helping hundreds of people at home and abroad to trace their not only Indian but European, Middle East, and other backgrounds.
He also helps to connect adopted children, now adults, to their biological parents. The Government of Trinidad & Tobago through its National Heritage Trust has appointed him the Chairman of the Restoration of Nelson Island where more than 120,000 of Indian ancestors were quarantined and registered on their arrival to Trinidad.
There they also awaited repatriation ships. They are also creating an Immigration Museum and Genealogical Center on the lines of Ellis Island, New York. He is also creating a Database of the arrival of all his India ancestors.
The Government and University of Trinidad and Tobago are currently speaking to him about sponsorship. The Sherlock Holmes for the NRIs says, "And so my work is far from complete. I have many more projects up my sleeve and will like to see them accomplished during the time my Creator keeps me here."
Kanika Mehta
Sap, do you have any idea where Shamsuhudeen lives. He is also mentioned in the article above. I may want to purchase some of his services if he is still in the business of tracing Indian roots. If you still have any info about connections to him, I would appreciate the info. I believe we have enough information about our ancestors to start a search.
Honey
11-15-2007, 06:28 PM
Maybe The National Archives of Trinidad would be a place to look?
it's possible that the records are held in the National Archives of Trinidad, but as with all records in the West Indies, if they survived, they may be quite sparse
A few months ago on UK tv there was a series on(Empire's Children) http://channel4.empireschildren.co.uk/index.php with several British celebrities who traced their "roots" . On it was Chris Bisson(http://channel4.empireschildren.co.uk/category/chapters/index.php?people=34&cat=2) a British born actor whose father was born in Trinidad. He (Chris) was able to obtain information such as http://channel4.empireschildren.co.uk/c ... country=32 (http://channel4.empireschildren.co.uk/category/chapters/index.php?chapter=804&cat=2&country=32)
Chris's great-grandfather Bishnia's name is listed in a register containing the names of 10,000 Indian immigrants taken to Trinidad between 1901 and 1906. Bishnia arrived aboard a ship called the 'Rhine' in 1905 and was registered as number 121,347. Like most indentured labourers of the time, it is likely that he knew nothing about his destination, or the duration of the coming journey. Many were illiterate and had signed agreements they could not read.
The records show Bishnia was only 17-years-old when he came to Trinidad from the Indian village of Konwaras. His journey would have taken over three months. He had been a labourer in India, and was five feet four inches tall with a scar on his left shin. His father's name was Gopal. Bishnia had married but had left his wife Bhimjat behind in India. Bishnia never returned to India and never saw his wife again.
By the time the indentured labour scheme was finally brought to an end in 1917, it is estimated that 2.5 million East Indians had been shipped to British colonies around the world. As well as friends, family and contact with the country of their birth, some even lost their names. Bishnia became known as 'Bissoon'. Although the family do not know the reason for this change, they speculate that the British may have struggled with his name and simplified it.
That Shamshu Deen fella was on it with Nazir Mohammed...who was 96 at the time of filming.
Erm sorry if that not very clear, I trying to pick out some info that may help, and I tired too, I should leave it for another day when i had time to gather enuff. But do have a look at the full feature and see if it helps in anyway.
Don't shoot the messenger eh...especially that first quote...where it says about records being sparse....it is taken from the website I link.
Every little bit helps. Thanks for sharing.
sapodila
11-16-2007, 12:33 PM
Thanks for all that info folks. BRji............he lives somewhere in T&T..... Rosebud did say to ask for him at the National Archives in T&T. I hope and pray that this wish is fulfilled for many many folks looking to find their roots. I congregate with so many folks from the Motherland every week. They too are curious to find out who we are... if we are related. May all obstacles be removed and the doors to our heritage shins through.
I will be in Trinidad for a month during the Xmas holidays. I asked one of my brothers to get in touch with some of these researchers with whom I hope to speak about searching for family roots. My brother knows Mr Brinsley Samaroo who may be aware of some of these researchers, and we will start from there.
Here is a link I found that offers some help with the proper data. Click on the link itself and provide the data.
http://www.indianroots.nic.in/
Trace your Roots in India
(for Indian Diaspora)
A substantial number of overseas Indians or descendants of the Indians who left Indian Shores in the second half of the 10th Century or in the early decades of 20th century to such far off places as the Caribbean, African continent, Mauritius, Fiji etc. The present day generation in the Diaspora nurture a deep urge to know their ancestral roots in India for sentimental reasons. Some of them also wish to contribute to the development of the village & town of their forefathers as a symbol of their sentiments.
Efforts have been made in the past by members of the Diaspora to establish the identity of their ancestral villages & to re-establish the social link that was snapped in the distant past. However such endeavors yielded limited results.
This website is designed to address the queries from the members of the Indian Diaspora on their ancestral roots in India in a systematic manner, in an interactive mode by developing a database through a questionnaire , transmission of the data to the administrative unit in the relevant district in India.
Submit the details of your Ancestor
Status of your Request
Submit findings of Investigation (only for DMs)
Contents on this website are provided by Ministry of External Affairs
This site is developed and hosted by : National Informatics Centre
Thanks everyone for all the recommendations amd for participating in this discussion. I learned a lot, and hopefully each one of us can help others with this kind of interst. My brother was able to contact Mr. Shamshudeen about tracing our roots back in India. We also have some other leads, and we will follow through. Thanks again for sharing.
sapodila
11-29-2007, 01:42 PM
This is so strange. I had to share this with you all. I found out that my grand father was given a birth certificate stating that he was born on Feb 1901. He was five years old at that time. The same year the "Red House" burned down, according to the older folks. That would have made his correct birth date 1896. Hence all the obstacles of tracing our roots.
sapodila
12-31-2007, 12:20 PM
Hey BRji, did you make any progress with finding your roots?
No Sap, and thanks for asking. We now arrived at a point where we have all the information we need to make a start, and I will follow up when I move to live in India. One of my nephews and his wife both speak Hindi fluently, and that may be all the help we now need to make all the connections once we find the village in which they lived.
We did contact Mr Shamshudeen, but we thought we could do the same with a little help in India when I move there.
If you really don't have a last address for relatives in India, you are taking the risk of finding people who may not be related to you.
We now have all the data we need. It is all on one form that was filled out when our grand parents left India-- their caste, village, township, county, next of kin, ship on which they left, date of departure, age of children, etc., are provided.
guyguy
12-31-2007, 03:38 PM
WOW !!! That is incredible and wonderful. I'm delighted for you. If you're ever in Bangalore, check out a restaurant called "Suzi's West Indian Restaurant" {ah cyar remember de name exactly]. Suzy is from Valsyn and iz meh pompkinvine famalee. She does cook rell goof T&T food too.
BTW; De lass time ah check, meh great-great-great granfadda waz de Maharaja ah Jaipur buh he disown de famalee when dey leff de palace an move tuh Trinidad. :D :D
Oh yes guyguy, I will surely check out that restaurent. I never heard of a West Indian restaurent in Bangalore. Wow!! I will also have to spread the word about that restaurent to some of my friends who often go to Puttarparthi via Bangalore. After a few weeks of North and South Indian food at Puttatparthi, you just can't wait to taste Trinidad food again.
guyguy
12-31-2007, 07:02 PM
It is the ONLY authentic Trini Restaurant in the Far East. Just tell Suzy you know me and she'll treat you well. My son, who spent 6-7 months setting up an office in Bangalore, used to eat there regularly. He's Guy also. I think the name is Suzy's Caribbean Kitchen but anyone can check http://www.local.google.com while in Bangalore for the correct name, address and phone number.
Good luck.
Thanks guy. I will check it out when I am in Bangalore next, hopefully, sometime this year.
sapodila
01-02-2008, 11:24 AM
Good for you BRji!
Guy........ah tought dat the English lord was looking fuh "stupid poor ****** people who name ends with 'Ram oh Roop' "as Russell Peters says, to fill de Queen's boats back to far west and Africa? ah didn't no he was targeting 'Maharajas :? ' too :lol:
guyguy
01-02-2008, 01:13 PM
Guy........ah tought dat the English lord was looking fuh "stupid poor ****** people who name ends with 'Ram oh Roop' "as Russell Peters says, to fill de Queen's boats back to far west and Africa? ah didn't no he was targeting 'Maharajas :? ' too :lol:
Dey waz actually targeting de Maharanis buh tuh get tuh de Maharanis, dey had tuh go thru de Maharajas. :D :D :D
sapodila
01-02-2008, 02:15 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: dey all were not very smart were they? they all got ' out -smarted' in the end........unfortunately
deeva
01-11-2008, 12:19 PM
Shamshudeen lives in Princes Town , I'm not sure if he still does the tracing of roots since he's very old now .
Sue's Restaurant is in Indira Nagar Colony in Bangalore.and the food is not so great . I prefer to eat Indian food while in India , especially "Indian Chinese' .
Yes and thanks for the information. My brother spoke with Shamshudeen. He still does it. What I heard is that when you start inquiring, everyone in the village claims to be your family. So we have to be careful, and see if we can pin point the village in which they lived. One of our jahaji cousins found their relatives, but they had an address to which their father used to send letters. Where there is a will there is a way.
sapodila
01-11-2008, 11:32 PM
Yes! you have to be very careful. There are many crossroads you will face especially in the continent itself. The folks there are always looking forward to sums of rupees. Now dey asking for $US. some folks of ours just got back. They were careful not to be conned.
I am smiling sap, as one can also be too careful, and learn to mistrust people sometimes. That happened to me in Varanasi some years ago. I am reminded of the over kill in warning I received about being conned.
The first time I went to Varanasi/Benares/Kashi, I asked my nephew who was then studying at Benares Hindu University to meet me at the airport. When I landed at the airport, there was a man with a sign looking for me. He was a taxi driver who was requested by someone to whom my nephew had delegated to pick me up, and bring me to his residence on campus. Since I was expecting my nephew, and he was not there, I suddenly got worried and started to wonder if the man with the sign was one of those conn men I had head about. My mind flashed to Bangalore where I had stayed the night before, and I wondered if he had a connection with Bangalore to conn me. Anyway, I decided to speak with another taxi driver who lured me into staying at a hotel he knew.
When I met my nephew the next day, he told me how he had asked the taxi company, and not the taki driver, to pick me up, so the taxi driver did not know the person who requested the service. If he had know that my nephew had asked to pick me up, I guess I would have felt safer. I just went on an over kill in being careful, but yet I took a stranger I had not known to take me to a hotel I did not know.
sapodila
01-13-2008, 02:16 PM
How the mind works eh! My relatives spent six weeks going from one place to the other by means of different contacts in the touring process. They met many very nice people along the way, who helped them out a lot. They spent a night at the home of one of the contacts who was overly receptive of them. The next morning, before they started of to the next point of their tour, the host said that they had to hand over ... get this eh......$ 10,000.00 $US, in order to receive the blessings that is associated with Vrindavan and Lord Krishna, for the next seven generations of their families. Of course they did not abide with the $10,000.00 $US, but they left the family with some cash for their hospitality, headed on and live to tell :)
I hope it was their way of asking for a litle financial help for the service they offered. I find the Indian people to be very simple and very helpful when you need help.
sapodila
01-14-2008, 10:22 AM
True, but there are ways to ask for help, not via the means of using religious beliefs.
Today one of my cousins from Cumuto, on my father's side, said he has the indentureship documents for our paternal great grand parents. With this information, the search for connections in India on on both sides of the family is more feasible. I am eager to know from where in India our paternal side of the family came.
Darkangel49
02-18-2008, 07:07 PM
I am really glad I read this post set me on amission now. my mom the only one who knows anything about our history and past and it going to take some time but Iam ready to find my roots in India.
serenity
02-27-2008, 09:45 AM
It just occurred to me that the Maharaj debate can finally be put to rest if the Maharajes here trace back their roots. Anybody know any Maharaj who did?
Falcon
02-27-2008, 11:09 AM
Not as simple as that.....most people go by their one name and their father's name, and omit the family name on all but the most official documents. Couple that with the fact of giving your son your first name as his second name, and then an arbitrary name for him to give his son. Your first name done lorse already! The westerners on the Admin, in true dumbing-down style would have taken the first name and the father's name, and completely omitted the family names.
Traceable yes, but not Maharajah who begat Maharaj who begat Maharaj, who begat Maraj.
serenity
02-28-2008, 10:37 AM
True, I also read about that and actually know a man whose last name is his father's first name.
I think Lal is added to the name to mean 'son of'.
Anyway, if at least one Maharaj is able to trace his roots and show is ancestors were runaway Kings then perhaps I'd be more inclined to suffer through the superiority complex that some folks who bear this esteemed name, carry with them.
I once had this discussion with a Maharaj woman and she totally sympathised with me...until she said 'Yeah, I dont know where these Maraj ppl come out from...trying to imitate the true MaHAraj name.'
Well yes! Of course the conversation ended right there with me wondering how I managed to miss the gleam of delusion in her eyes. I have heard it from doctors, lawyers, engineers etc. In other words, ppl who I thought would have accomplished enough in their life to let go of the artificial buttress of 'Maharaj'.
Steups.
I am also searching for my roots. My family never spoke about ancestors and this makes it more difficult. i dont even remember the name of my paternal great grandfather. Both sides of my family were christians, father, grandfather and greatgrand father were jewelers. However the name is not common, I know of no other family with this name. I started checking the BBC geneology, "who do you think you are" I got as far as a list of all ships to TT, 1846-1917 and a list of passengers on the Fatel Rozack. Could not find a list of passangers on the Duchess of Argyl, feb 1846. Does anyone have this list. Thankful for any info. VS Naipaul was able to trace his family to Utter Pradesh as well as another family I know. I guess it is more difficult for the earlier labourers as most of this knowledge was passed down from generation to generation. My parents, grand parents, in fact all the older heads have passed on. Good luck, everyone!!!
rohan3ni
12-18-2008, 11:40 PM
Biggest problem is that im sure my great grand parents change their names left right and center lol so I don't know really where to turn. I still will check it out thankss
Perhaps you can look for the birth certificate of a grand mother and see what name(s) she used on all your uncle and aunt's birth certificate. Then look for your great grand mother's name this way, until you get an idea about when they arrived in T&T. It is possible that you may get the name of the ship on which they came. From a search of the name of the ship you may be able to obtain some information that can be helpful.
The peope at the T&T archives, I am told, are very helpful. From the indentureship release certificate of our Aaja (paternal grand father), a cousin was able to get his identurship papers, as there is an indentureship number on it. Our Aajee (paternal grand mother) is believed to have come on the same ship. So we will try and find out more about her with only the ship's name and her name shown on my father's birth certificate. We believe she may have used two names as first names.
grapesweetie
01-16-2009, 06:10 PM
did u have any luck in your search brag?
Grape, we have't gotten that far yet. We had contacts with Mr Shamshudeen, but we were not ready to go that route, as the price he quoted for us was a little steep for us, and we were not sure how they go about finding Indian roots.
I had thought of doing the search myself when I move to live in India, but after hearing about the experiences of the late Dr. Outar who studied medicine in India many years ago, I wonder if I can succeed. Dr Outar had reported that the police advised him to abandon the search, as it was possible he could have gotten false information.
I will need to know more about how the search is done before I commit to a professional search. I understand Mr. Shamshudeen does not do the search himself, but hires someone from Delhi to do so. In any case, if we find something, I will not be satisfied until I know that the information came from an Indian source instead from a Trinidad source. perhaps a blood test will be needed to satisfy my curiosity.
If nothing comes out of my search, I will be satisfied just to know where in India my Aajee and Naanees' family were from, just to bring closure in my mind about their roots. For years, I thought that my Aaja's family was from South India. Now I know he was from Uttar Pradesh.
bigzack
01-22-2009, 09:04 AM
I hope that I am not breaking the tenet of this thread by asking this question.
During the terrorist incident in Mumbai not too long ago, a reporter was interviewing one of the native residents.
She was speaking English. To me, she sounded like a Trini.
So let me ask this question that I have been thinking about.
How much of an effect, did the immigrants from India had, in the formation of our current Trinidadian dialect?
Also, where in India, did the majority of immigrants come from.
Indian culture has always fascinated me. I was born in Gonzales, Port-Of-Spain. Most of my immediate neighbors were of Indian descent. They used to call my mother "Tanty" eventhough she was younger than most of them.
The first steelband stageside that I ever saw was at an Indian wedding in Gonzales. They were of Indian descent. They were called "Raymond and a Half". Later they changed their name to the Raymond Family and moved to Toronto.
Yes indeed, Trinis of Indian descent (Indians) do have a slight accent of their own, and Indian words and slangs have become part of the Trini dialect. I cannot fully describe it, but I am aware it exists.
I understand there is a Hindu temple in Gonzalez or in the area. I wonder how many of the Indians of Gonzalez still observe their Indian/Hindu culture. Preserving Indian/Hindu culture is always dear to me and members of my family.
It is said that most of the Indians of the West Indies, South Africa, Mauritaus and Fiji are predominantly Biharis and Uttar Pradeshis (UP), from regions east and west of the city of Ballia in UP. It is also said that indentured labor recruitment to the West Indies first began in Madras, now Chennai in the Indian State of Tamil Nadu which is now divided into Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh (AP).
One of my cousins recently told me how he had belonged to a steel band some years back with Indian members who were part of the origin of the steel band music development. He mentioned that recently there was a meeting at UWI about the steel pan music development, and he had to pull aside one of the speakers to inform him about the significant contribution by Indians to the development of the steel pan music.
kristina
01-24-2009, 12:16 PM
It is said that most of the Indians of the West Indies, South Africa, Mauritaus and Fiji are predominantly Biharis and Uttar Pradeshis (UP), from regions east and west of the city of Ballia in UP.
Yes this is true
bigzack
01-24-2009, 12:27 PM
Yes indeed, Trinis of Indian descent (Indians) do have a slight accent of their own, and Indian words and slangs have become part of the Trini dialect. I cannot fully describe it, but I am aware it exists.
I understand there is a Hindu temple in Gonzalez or in the area. I wonder how many of the Indians of Gonzalez still observe their Indian/Hindu culture. Preserving Indian/Hindu culture is always dear to me and members of my family.
That Hindu temple sits majestically on a hill just off Gonzales Circular Road. I remember that we used to go up there to fly kite. We used to call it the "Maha Sabha". It was first built out of dirt and sticks. It has since been rebuilt out of concrete.
I can't tell you much about the Indians of today in Gonzales.
I remember that an Indian wedding was a big occasion in Gonzales for both the Indo and Afro Trinidadian. The women used to have a procession and they would dig a hole and plant something wrapped in cloth. There used to be tassa drumming, singing, and eating for many nights before the wedding. To this day, the biggest pot I have ever seen was at an Indian wedding in Gonzales.
I am sure that the traditions have been passed down to this day. In fact, when next I visit Trinidad, I will inquire from mih old, Indian pardner called Gabriel, how the young ones are doing in carrying on the culture and traditions of India.
A people without a culture is certainly lost.
I believe that procession by the women before the wedding day is called "mati kor". I am not sure I know all the significance of "mati kor", but I have a feeling someone will tell us. I believe I heard a song on one of the Trini radio stations about mati kor night.
I am also searching for my roots. My family never spoke about ancestors and this makes it more difficult. i dont even remember the name of my paternal great grandfather. Both sides of my family were christians, father, grandfather and greatgrand father were jewelers. However the name is not common, I know of no other family with this name. I started checking the BBC geneology, "who do you think you are" I got as far as a list of all ships to TT, 1846-1917 and a list of passengers on the Fatel Rozack. Could not find a list of passangers on the Duchess of Argyl, feb 1846. Does anyone have this list. Thankful for any info. VS Naipaul was able to trace his family to Utter Pradesh as well as another family I know. I guess it is more difficult for the earlier labourers as most of this knowledge was passed down from generation to generation. My parents, grand parents, in fact all the older heads have passed on. Good luck, everyone!!!
Can you give some details on how you were able to get the list of ships and the passenger list of the Fatel Rozack?
Even better .... can you make it available to us?
Thanks
Hi Rick, I myself did not get the indentureship documents. Two of my cousins got them and shared them with us. The T&T National Archives is located on St Vincent St, just south of New Street up by the Queen's Park Savannah on the West side of St Vincent St. They have free parking and are ready to facilitate you with the recorded documents if you have any information that points to dates and ships. There is a big sign with the name Archives of T&T posted at the entrance of the parking lot, so you can't miss it.
I was at the Archives on Friday and made inquiries about copies of the passenger list for each ship that brought indentured laborers. They said they could not give me a list as such, but I would have to look up the list of passengers and request the copy I needed. However, one of my cousins said he would get a copy of the passenger list and share it with us to help identify our Aajee's name.
We know that our Aajee had names with different spellings, as shown on the birth certificates of our uncles. We believe our Aajee and Aajaa came on the same ship, so that is a big help, but I imagine the Archives will have all the names of the ships, so a guess about the time when the laborers came can be helpful. If you did not make progress, I will be happy to speak with you and put you in touch with one of my cousins who has a lot of information about the search.
Hi Rick, I myself did not get the indentureship documents. Two of my cousins got them and shared them with us. The T&T National Archives is located on St Vincent St, just south of New Street up by the Queen's Park Savannah on the West side of St Vincent St. They have free parking and are ready to facilitate you with the recorded documents if you have any information that points to dates and ships. There is a big sign with the name Archives of T&T posted at the entrance of the parking lot, so you can't miss it.
I was at the Archives on Friday and made inquiries about copies of the passenger list for each ship that brought indentured laborers. They said they could not give me a list as such, but I would have to look up the list of passengers and request the copy I needed. However, one of my cousins said he would get a copy of the passenger list and share it with us to help identify our Aajee's name.
We know that our Aajee had names with different spellings, as shown on the birth certificates of our uncles. We believe our Aajee and Aajaa came on the same ship, so that is a big help, but I imagine the Archives will have all the names of the ships, so a guess about the time when the laborers came can be helpful. If you did not make progress, I will be happy to speak with you and put you in touch with one of my cousins who has a lot of information about the search.
Hi Brag, Gaia
Unfortunately I am not in Trinidad but thanks for the information. I will definitely visit the archives when next I go home.
You and others have perked my interests so I will see what I can find out about my family (I have very little information at present).
Since this information is public knowledge but the archive does not yet have it on the Internet I was wondering if we can form a repository
to store and share information that we each collect. I would be happy to set up such a site if people would be willing to upload information to it
and share their progress. Maybe something like "roots.org.tt". What do you think?
mammadon
01-25-2009, 03:00 PM
Im not of Indian descent, but have many persons in Trinidad (or Guyana or Jamaica) traced their ancestry back to India? Or have even met their relatives?
And do persons of Indian descent in the Caribbean still have elements of Indian culture from India?
Muslim_Chick
01-25-2009, 03:17 PM
And do persons of Indian descent in the Caribbean still have elements of Indian culture from India?
when the indians came to the caribbean...there was not a mere transplantation of culture from India....but there was cultural reconstruction.....so the indo-caribbean ppl doh reali have much elements of indian culture from india....
One of my village cousins found their ancestors in Basti, a town in Uttar Pradesh close to Lucknow. Since then, a few family members visited Basti to maintain ties. Their father used to write his relatives in India when he was much younger and the children found one of those letters. My village cousin just came back from Basti a week ago, and I am waiting for some information about his visit with the relatives.
My grand father (Naana) used to write his family also, but we have no traces of letters which he left behind. I heard of a few other families who found their relatives, but I don't know any of them to get a first hand report of their findings.
Hi Rick, I believe that most of the posts on this thread is archived. There is a lot of information already gathered here and can be placed on a link as you suggested.
bigzack
01-25-2009, 08:54 PM
One of my village cousins found their ancestors in Basti, a town in Uttar Pradesh close to Lucknow.
Okay, so that where Lucknow Street in St.James got its name from.
And so too did some other streets and villages in Trinidad.
bigzack
01-26-2009, 10:04 AM
I am learning so much about Trinidad and Tobago on this thread.
Below is an excerpt from a letter I received from my cousin who for the first time visited relatives left behind in Basti, UP, India. He learned a lot about his ancestry from relatives. They originally came from Jaipur, Rajastan and have Rajput origins.
...the visit to the family in Basti was something else, so emotional. They were in tears. There are 9 families living in a small remote village called Gidhni about 50 miles outside Basti and the total number of people there is 47. So there are lots of family. Then I discovered that in a village close by called Ramapura which we visited also, there are many people who are descendents of the the brother of my great great grandfather. It seemed that my great great grandfather moved there from Jaipur with the family and then because the family got so large, some of them including my grandfather and his brothers moved to Gidhni. Anyway it was a lovely afternoon with all of the family and quite an emotional one. The eldest member is a chap called Jagdamna Singh who is now 87...BY the way, I bought a sitar in Agra and 4 Rajput pagris in Jaipur. After all my great great grandfather was a Rajput. They are so brightly coloured that they are admired by everyone here.
rosebud
02-20-2009, 02:35 PM
Please check out the Yahoo group Bhatchaman hosted by Richard Cheddie..."This group grew out of the need for the descendants of the Indo~Caribbean Jahaji's to Post, Search, and exchange data about their family's history, genealogy, accomplishments, and to discuss the indentureship experience."
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