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skl
02-04-2009, 08:50 PM
ent Dubai's Service economy was the basis of the PNM's plan to transform TT into a service economy/ financial centre of the Caribbean ?


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/04c365a8-ee70 ... fd2ac.html (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/04c365a8-ee70-11dd-b791-0000779fd2ac.html)


At the height of Dubai's recent boom, thousands of foreigners were arriving every day to seek their fortunes in this Gulf city of boundless ambition. Now, vehicles in the car park outside the airport gather dust as redundant expatriates abandon their wheels, fleeing home before they default on automotive loans and risk imprisonment.

Officials in the emirate were until the last few months unruffled by the credit crisis and a dramatic fall in oil prices, arguing that the services-led economy had not been affected. Indeed, they maintained, it would provide a safe haven for bankers and western companies suffering from the global downturn.

Dubai's six-year boom, which rode the regional petrodollar wave, was fuelled by the city's infrastructure and quality of life rather than by oil itself, of which the emirate has little. But the very openness of an economy built on finance and property investment now leaves it ill-placed to weather the storms raging elsewhere.

Amid a collapse of business and consumer confidence, financial and property companies have been shedding thousands of workers. The once steady stream of British tourists is also drying up as recession bites in the UK and sterling collapses against the dollar-pegged dirham.

The United Arab Emirates, of which Dubai is part, had to support the banking system with a Dh120bn ($33bn, £24bn, €25bn) package and bail out Dubai's two mortgage providers as the city's property bubble burst. Credit default spreads on the emirate's debt have since ballooned on worries that it might not be able to repay creditors without the help of the UAE's capital, oil-rich Abu Dhabi.

Bad headlines such as these are not part of the Dubai script of perennial growth. In response, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the emirate's ruler, has formed an advisory council to steer Dubai through its greatest challenge since the Gulf was plunged into its own 1930s depression when the pearling industry collapsed.

Mohammed Alabbar, the charismatic chairman of Emaar Properties, a local developer, was chosen to chair the nine-man body. Unlike some of the relative youths who run the vast commercial enterprises linked to the government and collectively dubbed "Dubai Inc", Mr Alabbar has lived through other crises: he made his name turning around the fortunes of a Dubai business that went bust after the 1980s Asian property bubble. "We are going to tighten our belts, roll over and pay off debt, and be really trim over the next year," he says.

Sheikh Mohammed for years encouraged his top lieutenants to compete against each other to create the biggest and best developments. Such competition quickened the city's growth but it also encouraged increasingly grandiose projects founded on debt. As bullish growth scenarios began to confuse unusually loose credit conditions with a new paradigm in global finance, Dubai was seen as a crucial staging post in the shift in economic power from the west to emerging Asia.

Now, these officials are working together on the same committee to prevent the global slowdown leading to a Dubai meltdown. "We are now sitting together for the first time in a long time," says Nasser al-Shaikh, director-general of the department of finance and another advisory council member.

Mr Shaikh says ambitious growth targets of 11 per cent a year until 2015 have been reined back to 4-6 per cent. The government is also planning a fiscal stimulus that will increase government spending by 42 per cent this year.

But by the time the council went public with its findings in November, the rapid deceleration had given rise to speculation that Abu Dhabi, the richest member of the UAE, might have to bail out its flashier neighbour. Rumours spread that Abu Dhabi would only stump up the cash if Dubai ceded control of its successful airline, Emirates.

Federal support has come through folding Dubai's troubled mortgage companies into well-capitalised Abu Dhabi banks. There have been other direct discussions between Dubai and Abu Dhabi state companies, although none has reached agreement.

Sheikh Mohammed's Dubai International Capital fund, whose assets have shrunk sharply, briefly courted investment from Mubadala, the Abu Dhabi investment arm. No substantive discussions ensued, people close to the matter say, but the incident fuelled rumours of a bail-out. Well before the credit crisis raised questions about Dubai's solvency, Mubadala and Dubai Aluminium had been discussing equity restructuring of their joint venture, Emirates Aluminium, a vast smelter on the Abu Dhabi/Dubai border.

Dubai officials insist they will handle their own problems, only seeking federal support as a last resort.

T he most pressing issue for the emirate's reputation is restructuring its $80bn debt, around one-quarter of which is estimated to be maturing this year. Moody's has raised concerns that Dubai's high debt, at more than 100 per cent of annual gross domestic product, could force it to seek support from Abu Dhabi. Fitch, meanwhile, has downgraded the debt of rated state-linked companies in the emirate.

State-linked companies have already paid off more than $2bn in outstanding debt. The next big refinancing, Borse Dubai's $4bn loan, should provide an insight into the emirate's risk profile among international creditors.

The government also believes it has been understating GDP, making its debt levels look more burdensome than they are. A new 2007 figure of $70bn-$80bn will soon be announced as the statistical department upgrades 1980s methodology responsible for the current figure of about $50bn for 2006.

Bankers worry that the government remains in denial about the depth of its problems, given the slowdown facing its services economy and the closure of international financial markets. "Dubai is still just trying to market its way out of this huge hole," says one.

Dubai's property market, once a favourite destination of foreign investors, is in need of financial surgery as developers face a collapse in sales amid dire investor sentiment and banks shy away from providing mortgages. Prices fell 23 per cent between the third and fourth quarters of last year, according to HSBC's index covering mortgage issuance - although anecdotal evidence suggests some distressed properties are selling at about half pre-summer peaks.

Officials say that projects not yet sold to the public - as much as half all announced developments - will be shelved until market conditions improve. The government is also considering helping developers who are finding it hard to complete projects. But more building sites are falling silent as funds dry up, despite Mr Shaikh's assurances that government will not allow the city's skyline to be marred by half-built structures.

The authorities have yet to reveal a plan for financing the property sector, having assumed that deposit injections into the country's banks last year will be enough to revive lending. The government estimates that, at most, 34,000 units will enter the market this year, only half the number predicted by several research reports, including Morgan Stanley's August forecast in which the US bank also spoke of a 10 per cent price decline by 2010.

Chris O'Donnell, chief executive of Nakheel, a government-owned developer, says it has the resources to cope as it slows work on a variety of projects, such as the Trump Tower on its landmark Palm Jumeirah island. He paints a rosy picture of the company's first major refinancing, a $3.5bn Islamic bond, in November this year. Nakheel's credit default swaps indicate that investors are more worried about Nakheel than other parts of Dubai Inc. "The world will be a totally different place [by November] and we don't think there will be any refinance issues at that point," says Mr O'Donnell.

With local banks reluctant to lend, financing Dubai's property and infrastructure developments will remain its greatest challenge this year. "Possible access to federal [UAE] funding will drive how much Dubai can and cannot do to maintain growth," says Jeffrey Culpepper, Middle East head of investment banking for Credit Suisse. "If you look at all the mega-projects announced, without federal funding and with the current dislocation in the global finance markets, some will be hard to finish on schedule."

So Dubai's ambitions may rest not only on the health of the global economy, and with it a revival of the oil price, but also on the attitude of global banks and capital markets. Dubai has spent three decades transforming itself into a global city; its future now depends on the world reciprocating this grand vision.

Harry Williamn
02-04-2009, 10:07 PM
It serves them right as they get "ripe " for Bin laden and company to move on them!

They ripped off ( along with their oil buddies in the USA and the Gulf states and the Russians ) the

US Taxpayers and the hard working people of the world as they wasted money and did their

nasty deals and drove up gas prices and now they shall eat **** once more with sand for desert..

I have absolutely no sympathy for them as they built "ski slopes " in the desert and 20 million

dollar condos in the sea!

"Be not deceived God is not mocked for whatsoever you sow that shall you also reap!"

Scorpio
02-04-2009, 10:47 PM
What was funny was that back in October of last year, while Dubai's economy was crashing, the dotish PM of Trinidad was talking about modelling TNT's IFC after Dubai's ...

Harry Williamn
02-04-2009, 11:20 PM
This time you are dead wrong scorpio about Patos!

He was not patterning anything after Dubai for he too slippery and smart fer dat!

He was " arranging " to have an "egg sucking " Corporation set up in Dubai so he chief "egg

sucker" could expatiate and flamagate and when the show is over the corporation collapse and

you cannot investigate anything in Dubai so the "egg sucking " is clean!

It is all about the " egg sucking " scorpio!

snowbird
02-04-2009, 11:37 PM
Well anyway talking about 'egg sucking'..... looks like the chickens have come home to roost..... even for Dubai, seems in this economic meltdown..... now man is an island.... not even if you try to build one....word to the wise Patos.... word to the wise.

guyguy
02-04-2009, 11:48 PM
Well anyway talking about 'egg sucking'..... looks like the chickens have come home to roost..... even for Dubai, seems in this economic meltdown..... now man is an island.... not even if you try to build one....word to the wise Patos.... word to the wise.
Harry have ah secret plan tuh fix Dubai too. :lol: :lol: :lol:

snowbird
02-04-2009, 11:53 PM
Well anyway talking about 'egg sucking'..... looks like the chickens have come home to roost..... even for Dubai, seems in this economic meltdown..... now man is an island.... not even if you try to build one....word to the wise Patos.... word to the wise.
Harry have ah secret plan tuh fix Dubai too. :lol: :lol: :lol:


This is where Harry cud make he move..... wid his skills, he cud sell his services tuh de highest bidder.... Go for it Harr. :lol:

greall
02-05-2009, 03:56 AM
So no more indoor snow... :?:

Falcon
02-05-2009, 04:09 AM
Dubai's economy crashed? Crashing? Hahahaha, oh mi belly!!! :lol:

If is one good thing Patos will do, is to follow Shk Mohammed. Only thing is, no room for freeloaders in dat system. And you have to be ruthless with the grassroots.

Huma
02-05-2009, 05:57 AM
Even funnier than what's happening now is what will happen when Dubai's fortunes reverse (along with many other countries) at the end of this downturn.

"Trini Politician XYZ shoulda have the foresight to stick with the Dubai plan!!!11"

JPersad
02-05-2009, 06:04 PM
Seems to me the reason why all the markets are failing simply because one way or the other their investments was in some way or fashion a big Ponzi scheme .
Since there are no new investors all the markets collapsed .
I don't know how much a stimulus can really , but it is worth a try .The solution however maybe in going back to basics .It will be slow , but it will also be sure .

mammadon
02-05-2009, 09:05 PM
Service economy is not just about financial services.

The fact is developed economies naturally have large service sectors. so as Manning gets closer to his vision of advanced economy status, then the economy would have more service sector industry due to a higher standard of living in the country.

IMO, the key is diversity. What does UAE have, apart from oil? not much, a bit like trinidad if we're honest. IMO UAE's problem is a lack of diversity in its economy, since if there were other parts of the economy to take up the slack i doubt this would have been as large a problem.

Falcon
02-06-2009, 01:58 AM
IMO, the key is diversity. What does UAE have, apart from oil? not much, a bit like trinidad if we're honest. IMO UAE's problem is a lack of diversity in its economy, .
:shock: :shock: Dubai lacking a diverse economy???! Abu Dhabi maybe, but certainly not Dubai!

Cork1
02-06-2009, 02:50 AM
Yes, I read yesterday, about 30% of the expats leaving, no jobs, they can't even pay for kids private education, property values dropping to low 60% of sales value, travellers leaving their cars abandoned at the airport, half paid for. Its a false economy. I cant see it working like Switzerland.Then the developmemt went so far that sewage plants were not planned properly that you get raw sewage on the beaches with used toilet paper floating (pic this?), Abu Dhabi wanted its money back but just injected billions$ 2 days ago. Its not a good model for Patos to follow.

mammadon
02-06-2009, 09:21 AM
IMO, the key is diversity. What does UAE have, apart from oil? not much, a bit like trinidad if we're honest. IMO UAE's problem is a lack of diversity in its economy, .
:shock: :shock: Dubai lacking a diverse economy???! Abu Dhabi maybe, but certainly not Dubai!

most of UAE's economy is in the energy sector. Dubai is only one city in the country.

skl
02-06-2009, 09:59 AM
most of UAE's economy is in the energy sector. Dubai is only one city in the country.

the article is about Dubai specifcally not the UAE as a whole.

oecarb
02-12-2009, 03:10 AM
Dubai is only one city in the country.

Correction: Dubai is one state in the United Arab Emirates.


The United Arab Emirates (UAE) is a federation of seven states situated in the southeast of the Arabian Peninsula in Southwest Asia on the Persian Gulf, bordering Oman and Saudi Arabia. The seven states, termed emirates, are Abu Dhabi, Ajman, Dubai, Fujairah, Ras al-Khaimah, Sharjah and Umm al-Quwain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Emirates

Falcon
02-12-2009, 05:52 AM
Oecarb you have time oui! When he say dat I realise from what platform he giving opinions- a thoroughly uninformed one!

saltwater
02-12-2009, 09:22 AM
Oecarb you have time oui! When he say dat I realise from what platform he giving opinions- a thoroughly uninformed one!
Daiz why we read Oecarb posts and pass over yours. Oecarb's post informs, yours judge.

Falcon
02-12-2009, 10:07 AM
Daiz why we
You didn't pass over mine; you read it and judged it as being judgemental.
We'd better get a title for you now. Unfortunately, DIM's taken.


Instructive that you're STILL in the 'we' mode.
As ah said before, start thinking, and acting for yourself! :)

Cork1
02-12-2009, 11:00 AM
In Dubai, I read this am, that if you can't pay your mortgage, say if you lose your job, you can be sent to jail because you owe money.

Falcon
02-12-2009, 11:23 AM
Rather unlikely as a first step Cork.
Buying a property as an expat isnt straightforward. It involves your sponsor, and a heap of insurance.

The first step will be repossession, then steps will be taken to remove the expat from the country. The debt will fall on the sponsor. Buying a property is funny as well because of the leasehold/freehold 'laws' which are tenuous at best!

You will be deported, but in jail, that's just counterproductive. Don't believe everything you read as evidenced by the Vince Accors story recently.

saltwater
02-12-2009, 07:44 PM
Daiz why we
You didn't pass over mine; you read it and judged it as being judgemental.
We'd better get a title for you now. Unfortunately, DIM's taken.


Instructive that you're STILL in the 'we' mode.
As ah said before, start thinking, and acting for yourself! :)
Instructive that you're STILL in the 'judge' mode.

Falcon
02-13-2009, 04:08 AM
saltwater, what are your opinions on the present situation in Dubai, concerning its service economy?

Do you agree that the stories about expats abandoning cars by the hundreds were no more than Sunday Times exaggeration of a total of 11 cars for 2008?

The credit crunch had hit them too, an the fat is being cut, that's all. Wouldnt you say?

lexbarker
02-16-2009, 02:42 AM
It looks like the country is bankrupt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cn1fFrjUMU

saltwater
02-18-2009, 08:25 AM
saltwater, what are your opinions on the present situation in Dubai, concerning its service economy?

Do you agree that the stories about expats abandoning cars by the hundreds were no more than Sunday Times exaggeration of a total of 11 cars for 2008?

The credit crunch had hit them too, an the fat is being cut, that's all. Wouldnt you say?
Falcon, I dont have an opinion on the present situation in Dubai. But I have one on your moderating style. Would you like to hear it.

Falcon
02-18-2009, 11:07 AM
Falcon, I dont have an opinion on the present situation in Dubai.

I'd absolutely love to- but not here.

In the Complaints and Bugs section please.

That way it wont be shrouded in Ole Talk, and the other mods and the admins may straighten me out if they agree with your new, or new by proxy, observations.

Looking forward to it, and your immediate cessation of spam on this thread.

Yours truly
Falcon

brag
02-22-2009, 09:09 AM
How the situation is deteriorating in Dubai.

http://www.varthe.com/ShowNews.asp?lang ... id=1233173 (http://www.varthe.com/ShowNews.asp?langid=en&NewsSite=&NewsUrl=http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1233173)

Dubai's missing cranes and fleeing Indians

A third of the crane population, working non-stop on high-rise buildings, have been grounded -- their wings clipped by the global meltdown. A decade's construction boom having suddenly gone bust, over one lakh people, mostly expatriates, have lost their jobs.

S Muthuraman, a construction worker from Tamil Nadu, sold his wife's ornaments so that he could pay the travel agents who, he believed, will take him to a more prosperous future in Dubai. Today, with construction activity having come to a standstill, he has been asked to leave the UAE. "I have a debt of Rs 86,000 and I am returning to India with Rs5,000 in my hand," he says.

Calicut's Madhusudhan Nair, a qualified lift engineer, is another victim of the meltdown in Dubai. The company he worked for is a sub-contractor for Nakheel, a construction major, which dumped 500 people last month, followed by another 300 this month. Despite having worked for his company for more than 10 years, he was laid off because Nakheel terminated the contract with his employer. Today Nair is out looking for a job in Mumbai as there is not much

Muthuraman and Nair are just two of the 2.3 million Indians in the UAE who are facing an uncertain future, with the Dubai economy in a free fall.

Mohan Nair, editor of Dubai's Property Weekly, says that at least 40 per cent of construction activity in Dubai has been indefinitely put off, rendering thousands of Indians jobless. In fact, even Property Weekly -- the leading publication on real estate in the region -- has shrunk from 300 to 80 pages.

And if the cancellation of power connections and work visas are any indication, around 1,300-1,500 people are leaving Dubai and Sharjah every day, returning to India and Sri Lanka (the worst affected among expatriates).

In its latest research report, the Economic Intelligence Unit (EIU) has said that Dubai's population could fall by 8 per cent, which, in turn, could lead to its construction and real estate work force getting slashed by as much as 25 per cent in 2009.

In fact, more than 100,000 Indian and Sri Lankan workers have already left the UAE.

Earlier last week, Majid Al Futtaim, the country's largest employer after the government, announced a 10 per cent staff cut. WS Atkins, a leading British engineering consultancy firm, laid off 190 professionals in the UAE early this month. Among other companies who trimmed the flab were Better Homes (150), Al Shafar (1,200) Dulsco (900), Tamweer (260), Tatweer (150), Damac (300) and WSP (90).

DNA had reported on January 14 that more than 3,000 cars had been abandoned in parking lots by debt-ridden foreigners, primarily Indians, exiting the country. And these expatriates are leaving behind unpaid credit card dues, and outstanding electricity and water bills.

Indian high school authorities in Dubai believe that the situation will worsen after March 2009, when the schools have their holidays. According to them, a lot of parents have applied for TC (Transfer Certificates) for their wards so that they can return and seek admission back in their home country.

Hemandas G Bhatia, founder of the Indian High School and a Dubai resident, told DNA he had "heard that a large chunk of parents have applied for TCs."

As for the Dubai stock market, it fell by 72 per cent last year, while the Abu Dhabi market fell by 47.5 per cent during the same period. Scrips of real and banking have been selling below their face value for the past nine weeks. The EIU, too, has downgraded its forecast for UAE's GDP growth for 2009 to 1.5 per cent.

In what is clearly a crisis-control measure, to dissuade people from leaving the country, the Dubai executive council has approved part-time jobs as an optional system in all government bodies. The government has also increased public spending by 42 per cent and pumped in 31.7 billion Dhirams to rejuvenate the system.

But nothing much will change for the mass of Indian workers unless these measures can revive the construction boom of the last decade and put those cranes back in the Dubai sky.

MisterTibbs
02-28-2009, 03:57 PM
So if oil falls below $25.00 a barell, what would those Dubiaians do?

Amelia
03-05-2009, 01:46 PM
Burj Dubai is the world's highest building; but will it be inhabited?


Dubai was the froth of the early 2000s, the purest example of a bubble economy based on rising prices and boosterism, a Ponzi scheme among the nations. Already in 2006, financial writer Youssef Ibrahim dissected its trompe d'oeil economy:

The huge oil revenues that have been pouring in for two years have nowhere else to go but into more and more real estate speculation. It makes for great business for the developers and their Western and Asian contractors, as well as for the owners - the sheiks, kings, emirs, and their big businessmen friends who own the deserts on which these mirage-like projects are being erected.

The formula from their perspective is straightforward: Sell desert land to investors at a premium. Then double the profits by financing the construction of artificial islands, lakes, and massive air-conditioned shopping malls, alongside pie-in-the-sky projects like the largest ski slope in the desert, a Jurassic Park complete with mechanical dinosaurs right out of the movie, and millions of housing units. Then get the hell out and let them eat cake.

Dubai's leadership, Ibrahim notes, invested its profits "from selling Disneyland desert fantasies in enduring assets outside the Gulf," such as port facilities and hotel properties.

When the music stopped last fall, with a world-wide recession and the price of oil tumbling over two-thirds, no one got harder hit than the Dubai dream machine. Just as it ascended with panache, so it now sinks con brio. One example, as reported by Robert F. Worth in the New York Times:

With Dubai's economy in free fall, newspapers have reported that more than 3,000 cars sit abandoned in the parking lot at the Dubai Airport, left by fleeing, debt-ridden foreigners (who could in fact be imprisoned if they failed to pay their bills). Some are said to have maxed-out credit cards inside and notes of apology taped to the windshield.

This unique abandoned-car syndrome results in part from the emirate's stringent work rules. As Worth explains, "jobless people here lose their work visas and then must leave the country within a month. That in turn reduces spending, creates housing vacancies and lowers real estate prices, in a downward spiral that has left parts of Dubai — once hailed as the economic superpower of the Middle East — looking like a ghost town."

Signs of the new penury abound:

real estate prices, which rose dramatically during Dubai's six-year boom, have dropped 30 percent or more over the past two or three months in some parts of the city. … So many used luxury cars are for sale, they are sometimes sold for 40 percent less than the asking price two months ago, car dealers say. Dubai's roads, usually thick with traffic at this time of year, are now mostly clear.

Expatriates in Dubai are now so down on the country, Worth explains, some see it "as though it were a con game all along."

There is every reason to think that the economic descent has just begun and has a long way to go. As this happens, foreigners are fleeing. Christopher Davidson, a specialist on the UAE at Durham University, notes that "When Dubai was rich and successful, everyone wanted to be its friend. Now that it has no money in the pocket, nobody wants to be pals anymore."http://www.danielpipes.org/6190/dubais-dramatic-drop

Amelia
03-05-2009, 01:56 PM
Here's another, (this one supposedly first-hand) view:


As a three-year resident of Dubai let me note that NYTimes' Worth's comments he based on other reporters, not on official statements or firsthand views. No reporter, local or international, has to my knowledge done what I have done--drive through the airport parking garages and police impound lots looking for these thousands of abandoned cars, and through the car shops and dealerships looking for the half price new or used ones. They do not exist. The "flight" and "abandoned cars" theme is myth.

The population of Dubai is growing, not shrinking; work visas granted (which journalists fail to ask about) exceed those cancelled. Yes, the net is lower than last year. Yes, construction planned is postponed, but construction started is being completed--again, stories to the contrary notwithstanding. Traffic jams are every bit as common and sizable as a year ago, except where magnificent new interchanges are open.

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/151196

brag
03-10-2009, 04:45 PM
And never mind the state of the economy, the Dubai Tower keeps on growing taller and taller.

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/ ... l=12396243 (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?cl=12396243)

Faraz
04-05-2009, 02:49 PM
Do you agree that the stories about expats abandoning cars by the hundreds were no more than Sunday Times exaggeration of a total of 11 cars for 2008?


Having just returned from a trip to Dubai, I can safely say it's wayyyy more than 11 cars.

I'm worried about this place. To me, it was a case of "all that glitters, is not gold". You get a serious sense of false security there.

Yes, the city is fantastic to look at. The constructions/architecture are breathtaking, and the expats are making a lot of money.

But I saw soooo many construction projects frozen, even on Palm Jumeirah. Expats are glorified servants to the Emiratis, and job security doesn't exist.
I met people who sold their bmws and porsches to buy kias just incase they have to park and fly.
The Emiratis are in serious denial of the existing recession.

And don't even dare discuss with someone in Dubai the fact that they are being bailed out by big brother Abu Dhabi.

Still a beautiful city though. You haven't seen cars until you've been there !!

lexbarker
05-02-2009, 10:23 AM
This video would make one think twice about investing/settling in an Arab state.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WhjSRRySLI
[youtube:1l7ao4p6]0WhjSRRySLI[/youtube:1l7ao4p6]

Falcon
05-02-2009, 05:24 PM
So let's get this straight........a spurned businessman takes a story of torture to the world's specialists in torture, and their sheep running with the story.....I seeeeeeeeee :roll:

lexbarker
05-02-2009, 09:51 PM
The difference is that this present administration acknowledged that it was wrong and is ending it. The other said that it is within their guideline.

Falcon
05-03-2009, 03:28 PM
not quite...nowhere in that piece did I see two sides with the same evidence before them. They boht commented on different things....so we still dont know what's going on.

lexbarker
05-03-2009, 09:47 PM
Ok. in that case he needed more crap to be beaten out of him.

Falcon
05-04-2009, 03:20 PM
tief never prospah lex.

lexbarker
05-04-2009, 09:51 PM
tief never prospah lex.
Did he get a trial?

lexbarker
05-05-2009, 12:29 AM
More news on this chap.
Torture-tape Gulf prince accused of 25 other attacks

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ma ... sualt-tape (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/03/uae-sheikh-accusation-assualt-tape)

Falcon
05-21-2009, 07:04 AM
Economy keeps on failing!!!

http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Environm ... 15626.html (http://www.gulfnews.com/nation/Environment/10315626.html)

:roll: