kife and fork indians

[sylvestter]

what is with this "kife and form indians" controversy?
i have not really been following....
why is this such a big insult? why does the phrase mean? why is it being bandied-about all over the campaign trail?

help me understand.....

[Maccogirl]

Steups "PNM have it easy PNM have it nice" :roll:

[Solachica]

I cyar eat using knife and fork so I ent know.

[JPersad]

I does try to use knife and fork only in the presence of non Trini company .
I still have not mastered the art , so I cannot help you.
Sorry .

[vaio]

i see no problem eatin with knife when the occasion arise...when in Rome..do like the Romans... but yuh shld ask the UNC supporters abt the issue.

[JPersad]

i see no problem eatin with knife when the occasion arise...when in Rome..do like the Romans... but yuh shld ask the UNC supporters abt the issue.
Oh gawwwwd ! :mrgreen:

[Double Trouble]

Like allyuh never see someone eat ah roti with knife and fawk, or what?

[peanut]

I don't know about you guys, but I eat with my mouth. By whatever means the food get in there is inconsequential, just as long as it does .... belly go be full.

[sam48]

MG,
PNM might have it nice and easy , but if they do it is due to the "abhimaan" of Basdeo Panday and the impatient hunger for power of Ramesh Lawrence Maharaj.
these two believe that they can manipulate all UNC supporters all the time, and it aint necessarily so, as they are finding out. The chickens are coming home to roost,it is accounting time for them both.

[lou_uk]

In the not too recent past, voting has been along racial lines. This time around we have "mostly African" vs "mostly Indian" vs "mostly Indian". Politicians need to be more responsible in their choice of words, as some of them now have one speech for one area, and another for the national community.

Take note!

[Solachica]

Like allyuh never see someone eat ah roti with knife and fawk, or what?
Yes I have seen this.
Am not much of a roti person.

[Maccogirl]

Mr. Sam I eat my roti with my hand not with knife and fork sorry it just will not taste the same and curry under my fingernails don't worry me it have soap and water for that, as for a lust of power show me on politician that does not have a lust for power, if anyone of them does not have a lust for power then they are dam fools you cant implement change be it good or bad without power, so they should seek another profession.

You feel Dookeran has no self serving interest?? You really feel he going into this thing because he just wants to make you and I happy, all those around him just doing this because they want to make the masses happy oh please the all have their reasons first and foremost, no one can manipulate supporters people follow their leaders for different reason.

Somebody manipulating you, well no one manipulating me with who I would vote for so that statement is just total nonsense. :roll:

[sapodila]

As I sit here eating my roti and same and peas, using my fingers to carry my food to my mouth, I am pondering the term " knife and fork Indian". I guess they use that term in Triniland to describe Indian folks who somehow forgot their roots, so to speak. I guess it could be insulting to the recipient if he /she does NOT think he /she is living the double standard. Also, with "cheap" political tactics like they so often use in T&T, it is common practice, the opponents attack each other's heritage.

[JediKnight]

what is with this "kife and form indians" controversy?
i have not really been following....
why is this such a big insult? why does the phrase mean? why is it being bandied-about all over the campaign trail?

help me understand.....

Panday said that the supporters of the COP are "knife and fork" indians, meaning that they are middle and upper class, as opposed to grass-roots. It also suggests that the COP does not care about the grass roots.

[JediKnight]

i see no problem eatin with knife when the occasion arise...when in Rome..do like the Romans... but yuh shld ask the UNC supporters abt the issue.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ghost]

what is with this "kife and form indians" controversy?
i have not really been following....
why is this such a big insult? why does the phrase mean? why is it being bandied-about all over the campaign trail?

help me understand.....

Once again it is a not so subtle appeal from panday to polarise his grassroots... when he not polarising his non hindu speaking supporters with non-english words like "neemakahram" and "abhimaan", he polarises his grassroots from the middle class supporters by talkin nonsense bout 'knife and fork' indians... so what if some indians eat with knife and fork dem is not people too???.... i think he just vex cause he realise, on the way up the ladder the "knife and fork"..ers start seeing old bas for what he really is... just ah hustler :mrgreen:

I will feel terribly insulted if i went a uncA meeting to hear issues relating to trinidad and tobago and instead i hearing hindi?? :roll:

bas even succeed in polarising sat maraj... if im not mistaken i think he throwing his support behing cop. I dont know when bas will understand that he cant win an election in trinidad and tobago by only appealing to his right wing supporters. he should look at david cameron and gordon brown when he in his flat in kensington... dem fighting for the middle ground years now... and sorry bas.. but jack in the box not goona do the trick either :roll:

[cm103]

what is with this "kife and form indians" controversy?
i have not really been following....
why is this such a big insult? why does the phrase mean? why is it being bandied-about all over the campaign trail?

help me understand.....

Panday said that the supporters of the COP are "knife and fork" indians, meaning that they are middle and upper class, as opposed to grass-roots. It also suggests that the COP does not care about the grass roots.

While he drives his A8, sends his kids to London to live it up while in school and has a multi million dollar bank account. All that and he ent use a fork?

Like he think he getting more 'tuition donations' if he get back as PM.

[BW]

what is with this "kife and form indians" controversy?
i have not really been following....
why is this such a big insult? why does the phrase mean? why is it being bandied-about all over the campaign trail?

help me understand.....

Panday said that the supporters of the COP are "knife and fork" indians, meaning that they are middle and upper class, as opposed to grass-roots. It also suggests that the COP does not care about the grass roots.

That's not really accurate. "Knife-and-fork" is a cultural distinction; it doesn't inherently have any class connotation. The term has the same meaning, regardless if it's applied onto a rich person or a poor person. The main idea here is that the person sees his or her culture as inherently inferior, and is thus willing to adopt foreign ways without significant thought or reason. From my interpretation, the term was used by the UNC to label the COP supporters as being of weak mind, easily swayed, naive and lacking a firm identity.

On another note, I did find it pretty depressing the way Anand Ramlogan responded to being called a "knife and fork". Instead of dismissing it, he instead tried to portray himself as being the most backward, traditional person around. He openly endorses the idea of having "more than 18 chirren", something which is downright irresponsible these days. On one hand, we have Manning accepting the slings and arrows for trying to promote family planning (the whole "watch TV instead" line), but Anand is quite content to throw away all that for some meaningless political gain. Anyway, that's off-topic =|

[sam48]

Normally spicing up your speech or writing, with a word or phrase from a different language is perfectly acceptable and most times enjoyable regardless of the language used.
For instance in the parliament of our country one often hears terms like "ad hoc" or "ex officio" being used, it should be perfectly acceptable to use hindi words or phrases anywhere especially when you consider that hindi is part of the culture and heritage of half the population. One often hears the word "pundit" being used internationally when referring to someone who is an expert on an issue.
The question is why doesnt Panday use hindi words or phrases when he is speaking in his oxonian accent in official fora or use more hindi phrases in parliament to have them recorded in Hansard. .To me that makes him a "knife and fork Indian"
When Panday is on the hustings he uses these hindi words to insult and denigrate his opponents in the eyes of the grassroots fooling them into thinking that he is not a "knife and fork Indian" and a high caste member of the upper class, but is one of them. That is what I mean by manipulation.He may not succeed 100% but he does it anyway and not only in Hindi.

[Maccogirl]

Oh please "kinive and fork " or "plastic Indian" simple meaning that some of them did not come from the poor Indian areas, cant speak a dam word of Hindi or Arabic and totally against anything connected to Indian culture. Panday is right there are many Knife and Fork Indians in this country that have no idea of the indo struggle, don't know about it ,cant stand the culture preferring pop and reggae, will never look at a Indian movie, wont even bother to pick up a book to learn their history or traditions. Some of them would not be even caught dead eating a roti or doubles in public.

In the same manner that there are many Africans in this society that don't care for their African heritage, wont learn about it some of them more in tune with a Jamacian culture than their own, know nothing about the African struggle, will never listen to the music preferring rap and hip hop and are more in tune to what comes out of the USA than what going on there than Africa. Some of them cant even tell you one dam thing that going on in Africa today

But of course some of you with all the brain will ignore that and hang on to the words knife and fork because it was spoken by Panday and try and make a big issue about it when you know what he is saying is true, why some of you don't say its the same on the African side also some don't care about the history and will not accept.... lord what else would some of you make an issue over in your quest to get Panday :roll:

[skl]

Well to paraphrase your own words Macco

Macco you are a die hard UNC fanatic so what you post here does not matter, for years Panday always right a for you and everybody else wrong . So take yah big time jahaji bundle and go !!! and leave the knife and fork behind !!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Maccogirl]

Boy eh like you like to get buff yes :D

[cm103]

Oh please "kinive and fork " or "plastic Indian" simple meaning that some of them did not come from the poor Indian areas, cant speak a dam word of Hindi or Arabic and totally against anything connected to Indian culture. Panday is right there are many Knife and Fork Indians in this country that have no idea of the indo struggle, don't know about it ,cant stand the culture preferring pop and reggae, will never look at a Indian movie, wont even bother to pick up a book to learn their history or traditions. Some of them would not be even caught dead eating a roti or doubles in public.

In the same manner that there are many Africans in this society that don't care for their African heritage, wont learn about it some of them more in tune with a Jamacian culture than their own, know nothing about the African struggle, will never listen to the music preferring rap and hip hop and are more in tune to what comes out of the USA than what going on there than Africa. Some of them cant even tell you one dam thing that going on in Africa today

But of course some of you with all the brain will ignore that and hang on to the words knife and fork because it was spoken by Panday and try and make a big issue about it when you know what he is saying is true, why some of you don't say its the same on the African side also some don't care about the history and will not accept.... lord what else would some of you make an issue over in your quest to get Panday :roll:

While I agree that you must never forget where you came from and the sacrifices made to get us to where we are, we are Trinis, plain and simple. We have our culture and are proud of it, though I see some it it being lost or Americanized.

Please lets stop with the race and who is what type. If Panday had say that Manning is a house **** and Jack is a field ***** you would have seen a riot but its ok because he is of the same race of those he insults? Why must we tolerate this type of racial divide from out so called leaders? They are segregating by distinction at this point.

BTW, if Anand did say anything about backward ****** I would let him have it myself. I asked him about that the day after it hit the papers and he seemed surprised.

[King B]

That one statement probably ensures that Anand wont win that seat.

[Dispatcher]

Please lets stop with the race and who is what type. If Panday had say that Manning is a house **** and Jack is a field ***** you would have seen a riot but its ok because he is of the same race of those he insults? Why must we tolerate this type of racial divide from out so called leaders? They are segregating by distinction at this point.

BTW, if Anand did say anything about backward ****** I would let him have it myself. I asked him about that the day after it hit the papers and he seemed surprised.

K&F Indian is hardly a racial slur on a people. It was just a term to identify a certain group of people who were not willing to struggle with the masses because of their attachment to the massa ways. They already made it to a certain level and were only concerned about themselves and maintaining their position.

Everything has a context in time and place. We must be careful how we blow things completely out of proportion.

[cm103]

Does Panday know what types of struggles Anand had to go through to even get to where he is? Before he beat he gums he should stop and think a little. But then again that was always his problem...

[vaio]

Bas plan is to divide and conquer...but alas not all ppl falling for his deceits anymore...

[halo]

I am not a Knife and Fork Indian... :D

[skl]

I is a chopstick Indian :lol:

[vaio]

I is a chopstick Indian :lol:
8-) :lol: :lol: ah like dat one :lol:

[Maccogirl]

Poor people = "little people"

Persons that follow Panday and the UNCA = backward c**lies

People of the African race = "these people"

All according to the COP :D :D :D

[JPersad]

BAS: "I do not deal with low level intermediaries !"
Priceless !

[Maccogirl]

Bas right especially when men that have no legal authority to keep calling themselves "Captain" and posing as a big time officer to try and impress the public why deal with idiots like that???

[skl]

Bas right especially when men that have no legal authority to keep calling themselves "Captain" and posing as a big time officer to try and impress the public why deal with idiots like that???

LOL so says the man wearing a red beret. the traditional symbol of airborne and special forces soldiers---which is why Chavez wears it. I wonder who Bas trying to impress with that ?

[cm103]

Bas right especially when men that have no legal authority to keep calling themselves "Captain" and posing as a big time officer to try and impress the public why deal with idiots like that???

Is all you do here is nitpick on the COP and say dam this and dam that?

Bas only have a set of talk and fooling people to try and remind them of the original UNC administration. Sorry you fell for it hard.

[Maccogirl]

Look who talking the chief advocate of the get Panday gang :D :D why it is that every time the COP seems to be getting themselves in a mess you COP supporters get hostile and ask people nonsene about being on here, look man go exercise your voting finger who stopping you, one thing I never did is come on here and pretend that the UNCA winning it all unlike COP supporters, I facing reality maybe its time for some of you COP members start doing the same. :roll: then when the COP gets in a mess you wont have to take it so hard :lol:

[cm103]

So when Bas lose all he marginal seats and vex you go wipe he brow? If you look back at my previous threads then you will see that I have said in reality the fight now is for opposition. Also, every political party will say on the platform that they winning elections.

Panday dragging this country down with him. You could imagine BBC and CNN reporting on the people re-electing a former PM who is under corruption charges? We go get back we banana republic status. Before he do the honourable thing and just sit this out until he is cleared he run and push everyone out of the way to take back his party. Fine leadership quality.

You still never responded to my question about how you could call yourself a UNC supporter if you don't mind if the PNM regains power.

[Maccogirl]

I am a UNC supporter but am not a die hard fanatic, I would love UNC to win but the facts are that the PNM is hard to beat, unlike you if Manning wins this election he is the PM of this country and should be respected for his position, I have survived under the PNM there are good things they have done and there are also things that I did not agree with, but I can't say that my life is in total crisis or going to be if PNM wins.

I have many friends that are staunch PNM supporters and the politics don't get in the way of that friendship, I worked for many years employed by the government of T&T and that was a PNM government, I never felt slighted or discriminated against and I can tell you where I worked you could of counted the Indian staff on your hand and from all indication that is still so today in that particular establishment. I know what it is like to work under a PNM government and a NAR government so I know the difference quiet well, so all these new faces of the old NAR regime don't impress me one bit because no one can tell me what they can do or not do, I know exactly what they can do :roll:

I don't have a problem if PNM wins this election and I believe that they will and the UNCA will form the opposition, life goes on after the election and if I have survived 5 years of the PNM why should I lie now and say I cant do 5 more if that is the case. :roll:

[BW]

I am a UNC supporter but am not a die hard fanatic, I would love UNC to win but the facts are that the PNM is hard to beat, unlike you if Manning wins this election he is the PM of this country and should be respected for his position, I have survived under the PNM there are good things they have done and there are also things that I did not agree with, but I can't say that my life is in total crisis or going to be if PNM wins.

I have many friends that are staunch PNM supporters and the politics don't get in the way of that friendship, I worked for many years employed by the government of T&T and that was a PNM government, I never felt slighted or discriminated against and I can tell you where I worked you could of counted the Indian staff on your hand and from all indication that is still so today in that particular establishment. I know what it is like to work under a PNM government and a NAR government so I know the difference quiet well, so all these new faces of the old NAR regime don't impress me one bit because no one can tell me what they can do or not do, I know exactly what they can do :roll:

I don't have a problem if PNM wins this election and I believe that they will and the UNCA will form the opposition, life goes on after the election and if I have survived 5 years of the PNM why should I lie now and say I cant do 5 more if that is the case. :roll:

Good to hear. I wish everyone held such an enlightened view. Civility and mutual respect should not be discarded just because we happen to be in an election season.

[skl]

I don't have a problem if PNM wins this election and I believe that they will and the UNCA will form the opposition, life goes on after the election and if I have survived 5 years of the PNM why should I lie now and say I cant do 5 more if that is the case. :roll:




Good to hear. I wish everyone held such an enlightened view. Civility and mutual respect should not be discarded just because we happen to be in an election season.


eh heh. let me hear some civility and mutual respect regarding the COP.

All this self congratulations on UNCites being fine with the PNM .

Doh get tie up. this year the enemy is COP not PNM.

[just1fix]

This is a term used to represent Trinidadians of East Indian descent who have decided to think for themselves, and not vote UNC. It seeks to paint education and economic prosperity as a bad thing which disconnects these East Indians from the rest of the country.

However there is once exception, once you vote UNC, even if you are wealthy and educated, you are automatically exempt from being a knife and fork indian.

It is an artificially conjured illusion by Panday to stifle discussion and freethought and have east indians vote on tribal lines.

[Huma]

I does eat my curry with a spoon and rip de paratha with mih hand.

No real point there, just wanted tuh add that. :lol:

[saltwater]

I am a UNC supporter but am not a die hard fanatic, I would love UNC to win but the facts are that the PNM is hard to beat, unlike you if Manning wins this election he is the PM of this country and should be respected for his position, I have survived under the PNM there are good things they have done and there are also things that I did not agree with, but I can't say that my life is in total crisis or going to be if PNM wins.

I have many friends that are staunch PNM supporters and the politics don't get in the way of that friendship, I worked for many years employed by the government of T&T and that was a PNM government, I never felt slighted or discriminated against and I can tell you where I worked you could of counted the Indian staff on your hand and from all indication that is still so today in that particular establishment. I know what it is like to work under a PNM government and a NAR government so I know the difference quiet well, so all these new faces of the old NAR regime don't impress me one bit because no one can tell me what they can do or not do, I know exactly what they can do :roll:

I don't have a problem if PNM wins this election and I believe that they will and the UNCA will form the opposition, life goes on after the election and if I have survived 5 years of the PNM why should I lie now and say I cant do 5 more if that is the case. :roll:
Macco like you was wukking Central Bank? You could count Indians with 1 hand overdey.

[BW]

This is a term used to represent Trinidadians of East Indian descent who have decided to think for themselves, and not vote UNC. It seeks to paint education and economic prosperity as a bad thing which disconnects these East Indians from the rest of the country.

However there is once exception, once you vote UNC, even if you are wealthy and educated, you are automatically exempt from being a knife and fork indian.

It is an artificially conjured illusion by Panday to stifle discussion and freethought and have east indians vote on tribal lines.

Pardner, you realise that what you saying not so different from than when Anand was calling UNC supporters "backward ******s"? You have so much gall to say that if somebody is an indian, the only way they go vote for UNC is if they "cannot think for themselves"? You so omniscient that your political view is the only one that people should agree with?

What arrogance and disrespect. Check yuhself. You might be using the more politically correct terms, but your message is just as offensive as Anand's little gaffe.

[sharun]

Knife an fork mean you damned if you do and damned if you don't 8-)

[sharun]

Actually dis one remine me of de ole days....pre knife an fork.....when roti was de ****** man bread..... :(
some things nevah change....

[just1fix]

Breadwinner,
First of all you need to get your facts right. Anand Ramlogan has denied ever making such a statement.
Secondly you are wrong to conclude that based on my statement that I have said that if someone is UNC they cannot think for themselves.
What I can see though is that you are unable to apply the principles of logic and reason to debate.

Let's go over it again so you understand this time.
1) I said "Knife and Fork" is a term used by Panday and the UNC to denigrate Trinidadians of East Indian descent who have decided to think for themselves and not vote UNC"

2) This does not imply that I said ALL indians who think for themselves will not vote UNC.

simply put
East Indians who vote COP think for themselves.
Panday has labelled these as Knife and Fork Indians
Indians within the UNC who think for themselves and are wealthy have not been branded knife and fork indians by Panday

my question was why?

Nowhere in these statements would a student of logic and reason conclude that my statements meant that all East Indians who think for themselves will vote COP. There are a lot of reasons why other East Indians who think for themselves might still vote UNC i.e. fear, expectation of reward etc....,misplaced loyalty.

I can see now though how your muddled thinking and disengenuity could lead you to make the wrong choice at election time. You are one person who is unable to think logically period.

to help you improve your critical thinking abilities i suggest the following site:
Logical Fallacies
An Encyclopedia of Errors of Reasoning
http://logicalfallacies.info/






This is a term used to represent Trinidadians of East Indian descent who have decided to think for themselves, and not vote UNC. It seeks to paint education and economic prosperity as a bad thing which disconnects these East Indians from the rest of the country.

However there is once exception, once you vote UNC, even if you are wealthy and educated, you are automatically exempt from being a knife and fork indian.

It is an artificially conjured illusion by Panday to stifle discussion and freethought and have east indians vote on tribal lines.

Pardner, you realise that what you saying not so different from than when Anand was calling UNC supporters "backward ******s"? You have so much gall to say that if somebody is an indian, the only way they go vote for UNC is if they "cannot think for themselves"? You so omniscient that your political view is the only one that people should agree with?

What arrogance and disrespect. Check yuhself. You might be using the more politically correct terms, but your message is just as offensive as Anand's little gaffe.

[BW]

Breadwinner,
First of all you need to get your facts right. Anand Ramlogan has denied ever making such a statement.
Secondly you are wrong to conclude that based on my statement that I have said that if someone is UNC they cannot think for themselves.
What I can see though is that you are unable to apply the principles of logic and reason to debate.

Let's go over it again so you understand this time.
1) I said "Knife and Fork" is a term used by Panday and the UNC to denigrate Trinidadians of East Indian descent who have decided to think for themselves and not vote UNC"

2) This does not imply that I said ALL indians who think for themselves will not vote UNC.

simply put
East Indians who vote COP think for themselves.
Panday has labelled these as Knife and Fork Indians
Indians within the UNC who think for themselves and are wealthy have not been branded knife and fork indians by Panday

my question was why?

Nowhere in these statements would a student of logic and reason conclude that my statements meant that all East Indians who think for themselves will vote COP. There are a lot of reasons why other East Indians who think for themselves might still vote UNC i.e. fear, expectation of reward etc....,misplaced loyalty.

I can see now though how your muddled thinking and disengenuity could lead you to make the wrong choice at election time. You are one person who is unable to think logically period.

to help you improve your critical thinking abilities i suggest the following site:
Logical Fallacies
An Encyclopedia of Errors of Reasoning
http://logicalfallacies.info/

Incase you missed it, I was criticizing you for being arrogant and disrespectful. You have only further proven my point. Check yourself.

ps, tell me, what exactly makes your statement different from Ramlogan's alleged "backward ******s" line? It too refers to east indians who cannot think for themselves and will thus follow Panday, but that alleged statement uses somewhat less politically correct language.

Anand Ramlogan has enough sense to deny it, but the substance of the message seems alive and well in supporters such as yourself.

[skl]

LOL

just1fix say

"Indians within the UNC who think for themselves and are wealthy have not been branded knife and fork indians by Panday"

Breadwinner say

" what exactly makes your statement different from Ramlogan's alleged "backward ******s" line? It too refers to east indians who cannot think for themselves and will thus follow Panday"

:D

[punjabtrini]

Oh please "kinive and fork " or "plastic Indian" simple meaning that some of them did not come from the poor Indian areas, cant speak a dam word of Hindi or Arabic and totally against anything connected to Indian culture. Panday is right there are many Knife and Fork Indians in this country that have no idea of the indo struggle, don't know about it ,cant stand the culture preferring pop and reggae, will never look at a Indian movie, wont even bother to pick up a book to learn their history or traditions. in your quest to get Panday :roll:

I may not like Panday at times but he is a good test of the level of trickiness that going on within politics. Manning is the same ting'. Hating yuh heritage is onr ting' but first and formost we are Trinis. This is we land! Respect, Discipline, Production and Tolerance! Nothing more and nothing less! Bringing up "knife and fawk Indians" actually reflect those who throwing out the term. They using it as a guilt trip, like "yuh eh wid us so yuh dis and yuh dat! Check it out good!

[vaio]

its really meant to insult the COP and their supporters. Seems like yuh have to come from the cane fields to be an indian, or look an indian movies and not talk hindi or arabic... its total BS...pure cr*p

[serenity]

doh worry syl, u is not a knife and fork Indian...they usually spell knife with an 'n'. :twisted: :mrgreen:

[Falcon]

stewwwps why you always have to be so miserable.......... 8-)

[serenity]

Touche! :mrgreen: