UNA Meeting in St. Augustine

[Parsifal]

I went to the UNCA meeting on Friday night and one thing struck me like a ton of bricks......the crowd was 99% East Indian and predominantly male!

There were no Douglas, no local whites, no Chinese, no Syrians.

There were about 50-60 Afro Trinis that were at least 100-200 yards from the Emerald Plaza parking lot. They were truly disinterested and did not participate in the proceedings. They looked like they were only there because somebody brought them there. i.e.they were not coming on their own volition.

I have been going to UNC events ever since Club 88 was formed in the Aranguez savannah but nothing prepared me for Friday night. The UNC has lost a very significant chunk of their crossover support from the Afro/Dougla/Mixed community. At least that is what can be inferred from those choosing to openly identify with the party at their public events.

Compare this with the PNM and COP meetings which are attracting crowds that are more representative of the national landscape.

The rally was well organized. However, they are using a very clever ploy to make the crowd appear larger than it actually was. Nearly 80% of the Emerald Plaza parking lot was filled with plastic chairs for people to sit on. This meant that there was a crowd of persons no more than 5 deep in front of the stage and standing room at the margins. This meant that people had to stand in the roadway. This gives the impression of a mass of people "spilling" onto the EMR which certainly would not have been the case if there were not any chairs. My estimate was 2,000 to 3,000.

Not bad for a Friday night meeting but clearly worrying if you are attempting to regain those heady days of the 2000 campaign.

[Scorpio]

2000-3000 is a damn good crowd, but I think the general consensus on the forum these days is that crowds don't win elections.

As for the composition of the crowd, well, Panday did a lot to try to make UNC an all inclusive party between 1995 and 2001, but it wasn't to be, because UNC "purists" had other ideas. I admire Panday for continuing to try, but clearly he's fighting a loosing battle.

[Parsifal]

2000-3000 is a damn good crowd, but I think the general consensus on the forum these days is that crowds don't win elections.

As for the composition of the crowd, well, Panday did a lot to try to make UNC an all inclusive party between 1995 and 2001, but it wasn't to be, because UNC "purists" had other ideas. I admire Panday for continuing to try, but clearly he's fighting a loosing battle.

Yes it was a good crowd and quite lively too. The attendees were very engaged in the proceedings with the exception of those persons bused in from the LFL.

I think that Panday and Warner know that they have to re-secure their base first as they have lost support to the COP. So in order to hold and possibly re-take what they have lost they have to resort to the code of the tribe. In doing so you are going to alienate other groups....but so be it.

This is war without the killing but at least they will live to fight another day.

[JPersad]

Macs , Seems as though the UNC only appealling to the indos .
What with that ?
I know you are the inhouse expert where race and election are concerned.
Please explain.

[Parsifal]

Macs , Seems as though the UNC only appealling to the indos .
What with that ?
I know you are the inhouse expert where race and election are concerned.
Please explain.

Not an expert but a very keen observer as to how groups continue to react and interact in their political discourse and participation.

The instant Panday made the "knife and fork Indian" comment it was pure code for those who react to that kind of language. He knew what he was saying and why. It seems to have worked but I think that all it does is re-solidify his base to return as leader of the opposition because in any election in his country whether it be a 2-horse or 3-horse race you need your base and little bit more.

This is where Panday is now stuck. He has lost the "little bit more". In fact he has lost a significant chunk of his base too.

I think that he and his strategists really know how much they have lost as well because they are running their front line candidates in safer seats. For example Jack Warner in Chaguanas West as opposed to Chaguanas East. Chaguanas East is dicey in a 3-way contest as it includes Enterprise, Lange Park, Cashew Gardens etc. The community is heterogenous and therefore not easily swayed by the call of the tribe.

They have done the same thing by moving Tim Gopeesingh out of St. Joseph to contest Caroni East.

If you look at it carefully, the UNC has no high profile candidates in the East West corridor nor in San Fernando. Not a single one. Compare this with 2000, 2001 and 2002 when they had the likes of Carlos John and others.

Their strategy is one of consolidation for the UNCA and containment of the COP....first and foremost.

[knives]

WoW, I am a COP supporter, but I have never seen such outright lieing before.

Firstly, 50 to 60 afro trinis? I was actually counting, and from my limited viewing angle I counted easily over 200. Infact, where we parked, we saw many afro trinis (who were not even from the area as they needed directions to the venue) heading toward the venue.

Secondly, 2000 to 3000? Well i guess there were at least 2000 to 3000 outside on the main road, because that crowd was easily over 10,000.

Thirdly, I don't know where u saw chairs, because it was only under the tents there were chairs, and hardly any as a matter of fact. This rally IMO was much more tightly packed than the COP's woodford square rally.

Forthly, I saw a very equal mix of men and women. I have no idea where u saw only men, because infact, I saw a lot of women. What I did notice was that there were fewer young people at this meeting than COP's Woodford sq rally.

Now, I don't support Panday and that crew, but I will not come here spilling lies like that.

UNC has been doing a great job at marketing and mobilizing their base. The momentum that was with COP has been lost to the UNC. COP better get their act together, because UNC is winning back their base and many new voters as well.

[Maccogirl]

So tell me what the COP doing?? They not fighting for the UNC base? Show me the high profile candidates that the COP has running against PNM candidates, where is the person the run against Manning. look at the candidate they place in Tobago against Dumas. Why DeLima , Hamel Smith, Humphrey, Pantin, Mayer all the back room COP people did not take on the PNM in Deigo even Yetming why??

The COP fighting UNC for their base nothing more, they not interested in this election because they know they cant beat the PNM what they are doing is trying desperately to move the UNC by extension Panday, with the hope of getting into opposition and building for the next election. What UNC is doing is protecting their base because they know what the COP is after all this nonsense talk that the COP winning it all yeah right it was never about that is was all about breaking the UNC and taking control.

[Parsifal]

WoW, I am a COP supporter, but I have never seen such outright lieing before.

Firstly, 50 to 60 afro trinis? I was actually counting, and from my limited viewing angle I counted easily over 200. Infact, where we parked, we saw many afro trinis (who were not even from the area as they needed directions to the venue) heading toward the venue.

Secondly, 2000 to 3000? Well i guess there were at least 2000 to 3000 outside on the main road, because that crowd was easily over 10,000.

Thirdly, I don't know where u saw chairs, because it was only under the tents there were chairs, and hardly any as a matter of fact. This rally IMO was much more tightly packed than the COP's woodford square rally.

Forthly, I saw a very equal mix of men and women. I have no idea where u saw only men, because infact, I saw a lot of women. What I did notice was that there were fewer young people at this meeting than COP's Woodford sq rally.

Now, I don't support Panday and that crew, but I will not come here spilling lies like that.

UNC has been doing a great job at marketing and mobilizing their base. The momentum that was with COP has been lost to the UNC. COP better get their act together, because UNC is winning back their base and many new voters as well.

Knives. Give me some of what you were smoking. In fact pass de cutchie from de lef han side!

First. I really had to look for the Afros who were no where in sight. You had to look for them. They were by the maxis parked far from the meeting. Sad lot actually.

The entire parking lot was filled with chairs thereby restricting the numbers standing in the venue as I described.

In order to do a proper crowd estimate you have to visualize a venue with a known capacity. In my case I like to use Queens Hall (capacity 800) or the Hasely Crawford Stadium (28,000). The entire seated capacity of Queens Hall would just about fill the Emerald Plaza Parking lot. So if you extrapolate 3 times this figure you would get about the approximate instant attendance. Add to that 600 more milling around at the periphery coming and going and you get the upper level of 3,000. Good turnout but not 10,000 and certainly not 30,000 as some UNCA people would have you believe.

So make a rational study before you start accusing me of all people of being untruthful.

The crowd as is the norm in UNC meetings is predominantly male. In the PNM meetings the audience the meetings are skewed towards women. There are sound social explanations for this phenomenon.

With regard to momentum the UNCA is making a big deal of this because they have energized their base to come to their events. On the ground you hear a different tune. Their is a significant undercurrent in the UNC heartland that has gone COP. Most I have noted do not show their support openly but they are there.....and they will vote. Be sure of that!

So if you are COP supporter as you purport to be then do not be disheartened. Go and work for your party. Time is on your side.

[TheLight]

So make a rational study before you start accusing me of all people of being untruthful.


by Parsifal on Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:49 am

I went to the UNCA meeting on Friday night and one thing struck me like a ton of bricks......the crowd was 99% East Indian and predominantly male!


Woman is boss on Election Day
By Irene Medina Sunday, October 14 2007

The massive show of women who are outnumbering men at political meetings throughout the country is also expected to manifest itself on Election Day.


http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,65963.html

but you are a boldface liar everyone knows that

[peanut]

Light ... who are the other candidates for the UNC????

[Parsifal]

Hey Dark in COP and PNM meetings yes.......not in Ali Baba's Den of Thieves!!!!! But dont worry a big expose is coming out on that if you dont understand what tiefing is all about...and I dont think you do much of that anyway! :P

Dark get one thing straight Patrick in allyuh tail for another five years and then some of Rowley after that....while Bas and Jack dodging local and foreign jail. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Lets face reality PNM 25:UNC 16:COP 0 :lol: :lol: :lol:

You could take that and put your house on it!

In 2012 It will be PNM 23 :UNC 8: COP 10

You know why I say that because the UNC will spiral into a slow steady decline once Bas fades away. So to the COPers out there hold strain. Rome was not built in a day. Panday played the race card first with the "knife and fork Indians" line. Console yourselves with that and keep the high road

[TheLight]

Hey Dark in COP and PNM meetings yes.......not in Ali Baba's Den of Thieves!!!!! But dont worry a big expose is coming out on that if you dont understand what tiefing is all about...and I dont think you do much of that anyway! :P

Dark get one thing straight Patrick in allyuh tail for another five years and then some of Rowley after that....while Bas and Jack dodging local and foreign jail. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Lets face reality PNM 25:UNC 16:COP 0 :lol: :lol: :lol:

You could take that and put your house on it!

In 2012 It will be PNM 23 :UNC 8: COP 10

You know why I say that because the UNC will spiral into a slow steady decline once Bas fades away. So to the COPers out there hold strain. Rome was not built in a day. Panday played the race card first with the "knife and fork Indians" line. Console yourselves with that and keep the high road


Just more lies

[cm103]

Hey Dark in COP and PNM meetings yes.......not in Ali Baba's Den of Thieves!!!!! But dont worry a big expose is coming out on that if you dont understand what tiefing is all about...and I dont think you do much of that anyway! :P

Dark get one thing straight Patrick in allyuh tail for another five years and then some of Rowley after that....while Bas and Jack dodging local and foreign jail. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Lets face reality PNM 25:UNC 16:COP 0 :lol: :lol: :lol:

You could take that and put your house on it!

In 2012 It will be PNM 23 :UNC 8: COP 10

You know why I say that because the UNC will spiral into a slow steady decline once Bas fades away. So to the COPers out there hold strain. Rome was not built in a day. Panday played the race card first with the "knife and fork Indians" line. Console yourselves with that and keep the high road


Just more lies

That is the man's personal projections for what will happen.

[Parsifal]

Just learn to deal with it Dark.......that's life!

So when you start to realize that a lot of people in this country vote on the basis of integrity in office and not for a bunch of tiefing crooks (ask the Birk Hillman fellas who are in jail now) or for a sense of decency (Manning sending words of commiseration to Dookeran when his brother died while Panday made fun of his collapse outside the funeral parlour) then you will understand why we cannot afford a UNC government with:

Panday (I did not see a London bank account I did not like)
Jack (Let me sell 60,000 tickets for a 28,000 seat stadium)
Ramesh (Better I mash dis ting up to teach Bas a lesson)
Kamla (beat mih more Bas and Jack....I like it so)

That is a recipe for bachanaal confusion and comess!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Anyway the multinationals are looking on and have started to put their money in one direction already.

So my dearest Dark....ponder your life ahead while the rest of the country moves forward. I will personally send you a candle....maybe that will provide some inspiration so that you may finally aspire and achieve.

[TheLight]

Just learn to deal with it Dark.......that's life!

So when you start to realize that a lot of people in this country vote on the basis of integrity in office and not for a bunch of tiefing crooks (ask the Birk Hillman fellas who are in jail now) or for a sense of decency (Manning sending words of commiseration to Dookeran when his brother died while Panday made fun of his collapse outside the funeral parlour) then you will understand why we cannot afford a UNC government with:

Panday (I did not see a London bank account I did not like)
Jack (Let me sell 60,000 tickets for a 28,000 seat stadium)
Ramesh (Better I mash dis ting up to teach Bas a lesson)
Kamla (beat mih more Bas and Jack....I like it so)

That is a recipe for bachanaal confusion and comess!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Anyway the multinationals are looking on and have started to put their money in one direction already.

So my dearest Dark....ponder your life ahead while the rest of the country moves forward. I will personally send you a candle....maybe that will provide some inspiration so that you may finally aspire and achieve.

Geez you believing your own lies now…what a pity

[Parsifal]

Oh lard Dark!

You have to admit that post was really witty! :mrgreen:

But seriously though.......the UNC does have an issue with corruption that they have not successfully handled and will continue to be blot on their record until the House of the Rising Sun is cleansed.

That is why no one outside of the base is attracted to the UNCA now and this is what is costing them the election.

[JPersad]

Knife and fork ?
Panday and RLM kids living it up in London and they want to talk about knife and fork supporting the Cop ?
The UNC grassroot have to be be really dumb to vote back for the UNC .

[Parsifal]

Knife and fork ?
Panday and RLM kids living it up in London and they want to talk about knife and fork supporting the Cop ?
The UNC grassroot have to be be really dumb to vote back for the UNC .

Well that's the way it goes.

This election is going to have more twists and turns in it before it is done.

While I can well appreciate what the COP is attempting to do (usurp the UNC and the politics of parochialism) I think that they made a huge mistake of aligning themselves so openly with the ONR crowd.

Time is indeed longer than twine and we shall see if they stand behind their principles in the long term and no just become a group of Panday?Jack/Ramesh haters.

[JPersad]

Knife and fork ?
Panday and RLM kids living it up in London and they want to talk about knife and fork supporting the Cop ?
The UNC grassroot have to be be really dumb to vote back for the UNC .

Well that's the way it goes.

This election is going to have more twists and turns in it before it is done.

While I can well appreciate what the COP is attempting to do (usurp the UNC and the politics of parochialism) I think that they made a huge mistake of aligning themselves so openly with the ONR crowd.

Time is indeed longer than twine and we shall see if they stand behind their principles in the long term and no just become a group of Panday?Jack/Ramesh haters.
I have known Dookeran since 1986 .
He may not have the flair of a Panday or the ambition of an RLM ,but for him selfless service is what count.
The ONR crowd headed by Suruj Rambachan is now solidly embedded in the UNC ,even if they try to cast that allegation on the COP .

[Parsifal]

I take your point well JP. I honestly do.

I started this topic off with my observations of Friday night.

It seems to have offended a number of people for no apparent reason....but then again "the truth doth offend and mightily at that!".

The audience on Friday certainly lacked the mixture of 1995 and 2000. There were precious few Afro Trinis and fewer "mixed" people who constitute the "swing" population in the marginals. This is also the fastest growing demographic in our country.

I sense that a lot of the COP support has decided to become less visible as a result....but it is still there. It may not be growing as rapidly as before but they have certainly stiffened in their resolve.

I would ask anyone to challenge that one!

[Maccogirl]

http://www.newsday.co.tt/galeria/2007-10-14-3-2A.jpg

Ok lets see if it had any women??? and this is not a wide screen shot so all you look an make a guess :D

[JPersad]

Macs ,
What is yuh official post in the UNC ?
Or yuh just have ah back stage pass ?

[BW]

http://www.newsday.co.tt/galeria/2007-10-14-3-2A.jpg

Ok lets see if it had any women??? and this is not a wide screen shot so all you look an make a guess :D

They say picture doh lie.
So ah wonder how de real liars go respond? :lol: :lol:

[Maccogirl]

Jp the man said it had no women in the meeting and all the African people was outside so I just giving you a first hand view so you can see the man is a dam liar, how COP supporters can lie so :lol: :lol: :lol:

[JPersad]

That picture shows about 200 people .Maybe 125 wearing orange t shirts sponsored by Jack Warner .

:o :o :o

[Maccogirl]

http://www.newsday.co.tt/galeria/2007-10-14-4-2A.jpg

So how much is this for the COP on the same night ??? :D 2000 ???

[BW]

look at that, it even have a sign telling them to stop :lol:

[Maccogirl]

:D :D Stop itttttttttt!!!!! that crowd missing some of the African vote also :D

[JPersad]

As if I expected ytou to post a positive looking COP crowd pic .
I eh that smart , but I eh is stupid as some people would like to believe .
Aright Coppers , time for alyuh to post alyuh pics !

[Parsifal]

Jp the man said it had no women in the meeting and all the African people was outside so I just giving you a first hand view so you can see the man is a dam liar, how COP supporters can lie so :lol: :lol: :lol:

Once again I have to say that english is indeed a difficult language for some people. I said that the crowd was "99% East Indian and predominantly male."

I never said that there were not any women. Read my post carefully.

Your sample picture bolsters my point. Three (3) afro faces. This would not have been the same in 2000 or even 1995. I went to UNC rallies and public meetings and the crowd mixture was not what I was used to seeing.

So lets do some math for a sec....out of 200 faces 3 are Afro.... that means 1.5%....so in a crowd of 3000 that means 45.....

So when I said 60 odd you see I was not joking and these were people outside in the roadway far from the meeting.

Also if you read my initial posting then you will also note that I said that the parking lot was filled with chairs. You notice that the people are sitting down because you can see a person actually getting out of one chair to stand up. Notice these were not chairs underneath any tent as one other poster erroneously suggested. So thank you for assisting me in that regard.

Also, because the shot is of persons sitting down, there would be more women.....I don't think it would be at all chivalrous for men to be seated and leave the women (notice the relative age) standing.

The standing crowd was for the most part male as I would expect it to be under the circumstances.

But now onto my main point.

The UNCA is getting the support of the majority of their base but not the little bit more that is required.

This was a rally to present candidates and not a spot political meeting so you have to bus in your supporters to cheer on the candidates for the various constituencies. To compare this event to the COP public meeting in Montrose on the same night is just being disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. Compare apples with apples when doing analysis.

The same way I posted back in early September that the COP would suffer a backlash from the UNC base and some of you thought that I was "dreaming" then you better take a second look at what I have been saying. I reported on the Unity Forum held in Saith Park and I posted my take on the event. Remember that one people? This campaign is turning out as foretold even down to my prediction that RLM would torpedo Kamla and Dookeran.

The PNM has secured its base and now the UNC is trying to do the same with theirs.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

However where the difference lies is that in making the call to arms, the UNCA cannot attract the swing voters as they have to pound the COP into the ground to secure their base. i.e. they have to run a negative campaign. In doing so they are open to counterattacks on their misuse of not only the public funds but also their misuse of the public trust.

I posted a week ago that we will have two weeks of mud slinging of the UNCA and the COP. This has surely now come to pass and the news is dominated by it all.

Compare this to the PNM campaign which is now unerringly "on message" while the UNCA and COP battle it out in the marginals and in Tabaquite, Caroni Central and Caroni East.

[Parsifal]

By the way MG I am not a COP supporter....if you read my posts carefully you will realize that I have no obvious affinity for the politics being practiced by the UNC or the COP.... as far as I am concerned you guys could bash each other for the next 30 odd years.

I mean it is hard for me to choose between a Hulsie, Sat or Devant Maharaj on one side and a Kamla or Ramesh with Jack on the next.

Everyone is hell bent on their own power agenda and will use wedge issues like race and class to achieve their objectives.

Here is one more prediction.....serious bloodletting in the UNC after the election when Kamla and Ramesh battle for the leadership of the UNC.

[JPersad]

Something just hit me !
UNC have a rent a crowd .
A close look would reveal that is unusual for so many people have the same UNC T shirts.
Is either UNC have a truck distributing free t shirts at every meeting (after all Jack hve the money )
Or they recycling and transporting their die hard supporters from all over the country .

[Parsifal]

Something just hit me !
UNC have a rent a crowd .
A close look would reveal that is unusual for so many people have the same UNC T shirts.
Is either UNC have a truck distributing free t shirts at every meeting (after all Jack hve the money )
Or they recycling and transporting their die hard supporters from all over the country .

The Afros who were there were certainly a "rent-a-crowd". They were totally not interested in the proceedings as most were liming far from the event.

The radio stations were full of people's accounts of what has been happening with regard to the busing of the LFL people from event to event and that they have to feed them and give them things to drink. I just find it amusing yet sad. :cry:

I feel sad because the UNC was onto something there for a while just like Eric Williams in the very early days of the PNM and the original ULF back in 1976.

You know that you are going to do well in an election when you attract people from other socioeconomic backgrounds who come in on their own volition.

When you have to pay to add some "colour" to the crowd then you know you have a problem.

[JPersad]

Something just hit me !
UNC have a rent a crowd .
A close look would reveal that is unusual for so many people have the same UNC T shirts.
Is either UNC have a truck distributing free t shirts at every meeting (after all Jack hve the money )
Or they recycling and transporting their die hard supporters from all over the country .

The Afros who were there were certainly a "rent-a-crowd". They were totally not interested in the proceedings as most were liming far from the event.

The radio stations were full of people's accounts of what has been happening with regard to the busing of the LFL people from event to event and that they have to feed them and give them things to drink. I just find it amusing yet sad. :cry:

I feel sad because the UNC was onto something there for a while just like Eric Williams in the very early days of the PNM and the original ULF back in 1976.

You know that you are going to do well in an election when you attract people from other socioeconomic backgrounds who come in on their own volition.

When you have to pay to add some "colour" to the crowd then you know you have a problem.
In its first term UNC was a very efficient and a very good government IMO .
However from the 2nd term , power , arrogance and corruption began to rear its ugly head .
From thereon it was downhill !

[Maccogirl]

SO why it have to be the African people were the rent a crowd ? LFL does have a following not a large contingent but they do have some people that follow them, all you good yes I guess the Africans that follow the COP around come in their cars and mix with the Westmorring crew, so they don't need transport of any kind.

Some of you act as if UNC never had any African supporters this is a new phenomenon that you all are witnessing , yet the UNCA has more African people running for a set than the COP so these persons have no support no where in T&T :roll: Is the African vote solidly behind Dyer? Where are her numbers, which areas in Diego fully supporting her??

[Parsifal]

Hey Dark in COP and PNM meetings yes.......not in Ali Baba's Den of Thieves!!!!! But dont worry a big expose is coming out on that if you dont understand what tiefing is all about...and I dont think you do much of that anyway! :P

Dark get one thing straight Patrick in allyuh tail for another five years and then some of Rowley after that....while Bas and Jack dodging local and foreign jail. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Lets face reality PNM 25:UNC 16:COP 0 :lol: :lol: :lol:

You could take that and put your house on it!

In 2012 It will be PNM 23 :UNC 8: COP 10

You know why I say that because the UNC will spiral into a slow steady decline once Bas fades away. So to the COPers out there hold strain. Rome was not built in a day. Panday played the race card first with the "knife and fork Indians" line. Console yourselves with that and keep the high road

I just had to resurrect this post.

I really should have placed a bet with a one seat spread.

I am enjoying reading the posts from bLight otherwise known as the Dark and Knives and their accusations that I was lying blah blah blah........I will personally send you a bottle of Rev. Jim Jones best "pick me up tonic" for you to ease the pain.

The damned election result was nearly 29-12.

[peanut]

"I will personally send you a bottle of Rev. Jim Jones best "pick me up tonic" for you to ease the pain"

I was told by a forumite to go drink some gramoxone now you offering TheLight some of Jim Jones "pick me up tonic" such love :!: :shock: :shock: :shock: