'T&T TOO RICH'

[travelbug]

Juhel Browne - Today's Express (Sorry Guarianites!)


"I have determined that Trinidad and Tobago has become a "high income" country, and I am terminating the designation of that country as a beneficiary developing country ...effective January 1, 2010.

Trinidad and Tobago's economy has been going so well that US President George W Bush has informed Congress this country is now a "high income" one and therefore no longer qualifies for duty-free access for exports.

Unfortunately for local exporters, however, the "high income" designation comes with a downside to them, as Bush has issued a presidential proclamation that terminates this country's preferential treatment under the Generalised System of Preferences (GSP) to export a range of products duty-free into the American markets, in the next two years.

According to the Office of the United States Trade Representative, the GSP is a programme designed to promote "economic growth" in the developing world and provides preferential duty-free access for the entry of more than 4,500 products from 131 designated beneficiary countries and territories.

The GSP was created in 1974 by the United States Congress, which is comprised of the House of Representatives and the Senate.

It came into force in 1976.

And while Minister in the Ministry of Finance Mariano Browne says the new development will only affect about "two per cent" of the country's exports, he acknowledged it is something that the Government is not ignoring.

"It's not threatening to business. It's something to look at," Browne said in an interview with the Express yesterday.

The GSP beneficiary status is determined by the United States President in accordance with the rules of the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development under the United States Trade Act of 1974.

On Monday, Bush wrote a letter to the United States House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Peloski and Senate President Richard Dick Cheney, who is also the United States Vice President, in which he informed them of his proclamation that terminates the designation of Trinidad and Tobago as a beneficiary developing country for purposes of the GSP, according to the rules of the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development.

"Termination is effective on January 1, of the second year following the year in which such determination is made. I have determined that Trinidad and Tobago has become a 'high income' country, and I am terminating the designation of that country as a beneficiary developing country for purposes of the GSP, effective January 1, 2010," Bush wrote.

The letter is available on website of the United States presidential office, The White House.

Interviewed during the tea break of yesterday's sitting of the Senate, Browne said that he had consulted with Trade and Industry Minister Dr Lenny Saith, who informed him that the situation is not a doom-and-gloom pronouncement for the nation's export sector.

"It only affects two per cent of our total trade," Browne said.

Asked if this would not affect many local exporters, he responded, "Two per cent? Some people will be, but we can't say exactly. That is what we estimate at this stage of the game."

He said Bush's determination that this country should now be designated in the high-income bracket is "not surprising" given the overall performance of the economy.

In a statement issued yesterday, Nirad Tewarie, a spokesman Congress of the People (COP), expressed serious concerns about Bush's decision as he claimed it "will have a tremendous impact on local exporters and almost certainly result in a loss of jobs".


REALLY?? What's the cost of a loaf of bread again? I admit I am almost ignorant of anything financial, but does this make sense to the people of Trinidad? Or just the economy. Sorry for seeming stupid, but I have to ask...

[Somebody007]

Well remember of late, Trinidad and Tobago is earning more money than it could spend? and instead of paying off the IMF and get them out of Trinidad, we instead, decide to spend money on other issues as if its growing on trees.

Right now, Bush is right in his opinion.....Trinidad has alot of money but is what we are doing with it.

And also, there are alot of other rich countries....but do you think the people are gaining from all its 'riches'?

Look at the UK for example.....The UK is the 4th richest country on this planet and when you look at how people live in the UK, they are simply earning enough pounds to survive. Where is all the money going in that country.

The Chancellor of Exchequer admitted some years ago while reading out the country's annual budget that most of Britain is living on the poverty line despite having all this wealth.

Look at how that country makes money.....46% of their GDP comes from taxes. They don't do much trading with other countries, and they also depend on international students paying exhorbitant fees to study in the UK.

[lexbarker]

Well remember of late, Trinidad and Tobago is earning more money than it could spend? and instead of paying off the IMF and get them out of Trinidad, we instead, decide to spend money on other issues as if its growing on trees.

Right now, Bush is right in his opinion.....Trinidad has alot of money but is what we are doing with it.

And also, there are alot of other rich countries....but do you think the people are gaining from all its 'riches'?

Look at the UK for example.....The UK is the 4th richest country on this planet and when you look at how people live in the UK, they are simply earning enough pounds to survive. Where is all the money going in that country.

The Chancellor of Exchequer admitted some years ago while reading out the country's annual budget that most of Britain is living on the poverty line despite having all this wealth.

Look at how that country makes money.....46% of their GDP comes from taxes. They don't do much trading with other countries, and they also depend on international students paying exhorbitant fees to study in the UK.

Oecarb, way yuh? Tell dis guy he torking nonsense about UK.

[oecarb]

Look at the UK for example.....The UK is the 4th richest country on this planet and when you look at how people live in the UK, they are simply earning enough pounds to survive. Where is all the money going in that country.

The Chancellor of Exchequer admitted some years ago while reading out the country's annual budget that most of Britain is living on the poverty line despite having all this wealth.

Look at how that country makes money.....46% of their GDP comes from taxes. They don't do much trading with other countries, and they also depend on international students paying exhorbitant fees to study in the UK.

Oecarb, way yuh? Tell dis guy he torking nonsense about UK.

No problem Lex. I know how I live. I know how my kids live. I know how my retired brother lives. I know we do pay a helluva lot of tax in this country. I know a lot of this tax goes to help out poorer people. I know a lot of people trying to get into this country. I know the minimum wage is over $11.00 US per hour. I know the unemployment rate is low - even after a million Poles and Hungarians came here when they joined the EU.

I know what people earn and what they have to spend is two different things because people can get all kinda benefit like child allowance (about $US 25.00 per week per child), housing allowance, income support, free health care, subsidised housing so even low earners could end up having more than medium earners depending on how many children they have, what kinda responsibilities and so on. So a person with six kids might be on the minimum wage (about US $440 per week) but could end up with an extra $250 US or more after benefits. if you unemployed, you could still qualify for unemployment benefit and child benefit and housing benefit and free prescriptions and your children would get free school meals.

This is a Welfare State.

I don't know where Somebody gets his facts but I seem to remember him talking about some US firm taking over Tesco's when it was Tesco's taking over the US firm. Sorry Somebody, if I got that wrong.

[Beetle]

I know a lot of people trying to get into this country.

I know a lot of people trying to get OUT of that country

[LRD]

Regarding the UK I can assure you that the wealth of that nation right now is illusionary. So many people are using credit cards to maintain their lifestyle. House prices have started to are fall and it will snowball with many people owing much more than their house is worth. This generation in the UK and US are going to experience poverty in a way they never could have conceived possible.

[oecarb]

Regarding the UK I can assure you that the wealth of that nation right now is illusionary. So many people are using credit cards to maintain their lifestyle. House prices have started to are fall and it will snowball with many people owing much more than their house is worth.

This is true to a great extent.

However, we are not yet seeing massive falls in house prices - yet. House prices in the UK have fallen by 6.3% in the last year.


The average price of a home in the UK has fallen by 6.3%, or £11,500, since last June, and by 7.5%, or £13,629, since reaching a peak last October, according to the figures. It now stands at £172,415.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/ju ... s.property (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/jul/01/houseprices.property)


June 24 (Bloomberg) -- Confidence among Americans dropped to the lowest level in 16 years and house prices fell the most on record, raising the risk that consumers will cut back on purchases after spending their tax rebates.

The Conference Board's confidence index fell to 50.4 in June, lower than forecast, from 58.1 in May. Home prices in 20 cities dropped 15.3 percent in April from a year earlier, according to S&P/Case-Shiller, the most since the group began collecting data.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... 5OHiRhlQ3Y (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&refer=home&sid=av5OHiRhlQ3Y)

We are not seeing great rises in unemploment - yet.

USA:

The national unemployment rate climbed a full percentage point over the last year to 5.5 percent in May, according to the Labor Department. That does not include people who are jobless and have given up looking for work, or people who have been bumped to part-time jobs from full-time. Add in those people and the so-called underemployment rate rises to 9.7 percent, up from 8.3 percent in May 2007, according to the Labor Department.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/business/02jobs.html

UK:

Labour Market Statistics

June 11 2008 - The unemployment rate rose to 5.3% - up 0.1% over the quarter and down 0.2% on last year. 29.55 million people were in work in the period February to April according to the labour force survey (LFS). This remains the highest on record, up by 76,000 on the quarter, and up by 446,000 on the last year.

http://www.hrmguide.co.uk/jobmarket/unemployment.htm

[Somebody007]

I know a lot of people trying to get into this country.

I know a lot of people trying to get OUT of that country


I know a couple of trinis in London who told me that they eager to pack up and call it a day in England to return to Trinidad.

[Amelia]

I know a couple of trinis in London who told me that they eager to pack up and call it a day in England to return to Trinidad.

They need a reality check from Dancerboy. :D

[oecarb]

Sorry, I accidentally deleted this post by hitting the edit instead of the quote button :cry:

[Somebody007]

How much of those people will be earning a ?1,000 a month in pension? I know a trini lady working in the British public service who is about to retire and she told me her pension will be ?400 a month.

[oecarb]

How much of those people will be earning a ?1,000 a month in pension? I know a trini lady working in the British public service who is about to retire and she told me her pension will be ?400 a month.

Somebody, you will notice I said:

With a pension from your job and the state pension, you could be talking upwards of £1000 per month (about TT $12,000).

I don't know about this particular lady's circumstances - whether she is working full-time or part-time, how much she is earning, how many years she has worked etc.

But she should have two pensions when she retires:
There is the State Pension which is based on National Insurance contributions and is available to everyone who has been working and paying National Insurance.[/*:m:354jwa39]
Then there would be her Civil Service pension which is based on her final salary and the number of years service.[/*:m:354jwa39]

Supposing she has been working in the UK for tewnty years and has been paying full NI contributions (married women are allowed to pay reduced contributions and they can rely on their husband's), she would be eligible for about £200 per month state pension at age 60.

Supposing she was working in the Civil Service for those twenty years and her final salary is the average British income (£25,000), her pension would be ¼ of her salary (£6,250 - or £520 per month).

Therefore, her total pension would be about £720 per month.

If she had worked longer and/or she had got promotions during the time she was in the Civil Service, her salary would have been higher than the national average. If she had also been paying full NI contributions, her total pension payments could then easily top £1000 per month. For instance, thirty years' service with a final salary of £25,000 would mean about £300 state pension plus £780 Civil Service pension.

So this lady might be talikng about her Civil Service pension only, or she might not have been long in the Civil service or she might never have been promoted or she might be part-time or she might not have been paying full NI contributions or she might be part-time or any number of other scenarios might apply in her case.

Reference: http://www.civilservice-pensions.gov.uk ... px#pension (http://www.civilservice-pensions.gov.uk/scheme_information/leaving/age_retirement/classic.aspx#pension)

[brag]

Who really knows? It could be a blessing in disguise for T&T. Yes, T&T seems too rich to be receiving American subsidies. We need to get back to the land to feed ourselves and provide a living for all. The countries of South America can provide some of the markets for our products, and lessen our dependence on the US.

There are too many abandoned and waste lands all over the country. Slave labor Mr. Manning says, but what he must mean is that hand-outs are far better, and they keep you in political power as in the case of Mr Mugabe. A little less material comfort will change the political scenery in T&T.

Perhaps we need to get back to material poverty in order to elevate ourselves to our spiritual riches. Therefore, President Bush might be right in offering us a chance to reflect on our growing wealth, tighten our belts and be less dependent on hand-outs from the US. He might be helping T&T get back to its once natural riches--humility in material poverty.

Yes, this US President may seem crazy to many, but his advocacy for tightening our belts versus the policies of others who advocate expanding it with hand outs is what makes him a great leader and a spiritualist. I supported him the first time in office, but developed some doubts about him later, but that was a mistake. If nothing else, he acts on his deep convictions which cannot be said about many politicians. If I could have my way, I will give him another term in office.

Healthier lives can develop by working harder, remaining slim, eating less, butchering less lives, teaching frugality, etc. They could lead to less/fewer diabetics, heart attacks, mental illness, car accidents, drug addicts, alcoholics, kidnapping, murder, rape, lascivious behaviors, sexual diseases, child abuse and neglect, working mothers, lessening desires, etc.

All our material wealth has only brought us closer to the so called devil's playground of excessive consumption that leads to prolonged diseased lives, pills consumption, excessive blood tests, etc. It is unfortunate that we don't know that less can often mean more, and that the true meaning of poverty is in the increase of material desires. It is said that less desires mean less luggage to carry, and more freedom to move about with ease.

Many may have no problem joining the ranks of the spiritually rich, with a better understanding of the true meaning of wealth. Our problem is in not believing in the spiritual education we once had and our lack of faith in nature in which we are immersed as our true teacher and provider.

[Scorpio]

I know a lot of people trying to get into this country.

I know a lot of people trying to get OUT of that country


I know a couple of trinis in London who told me that they eager to pack up and call it a day in England to return to Trinidad.


007 breds, I just came back from England, and while there I took the opportunity to look up a couple of Trinis friends, they are my age and we all left TRini at about the same time - man, when I see how they live there I immediately remembered things you told me.

That place is no bed of roses, even after 4 years of hard work, the hardship doesn't seem to have gone away.

I feel so lucky for myself, but so sorry for my friends.

I'd say to anyone who wants to leave "Rich Trinidad" to think carefully wbout where you are going to before taking the leap.

[Falcon]

I find it difficult to believe that after '4 years of hard work', ANYONE can be struggling in a place like England.

But I find you ent check me, like we ent frens or wha? :P

How is KFCSpicy? She's well?

[Somebody007]

I find it difficult to believe that after '4 years of hard work', ANYONE can be struggling in a place like England.

But I find you ent check me, like we ent frens or wha? :P

How is KFCSpicy? She's well?


Well Falcon, as I was saying before, I think it was last year, remember that thread.....how England was a rough and tough place.....and people turn around and cuss meh for it....and I also warned Scorps, he has seen it for himself.....and I would gladly encourage Trinis....if you don't believe, then go and see the place for yourself.....

Some trinis might actually like England.....then good for you...others, who living a good life in Trinidad, will not appreciate the lifestyle of the UK....espeically if you live in a big house in Trinidad, driving a luxury car, working in a high paying job etc.....it just wouldn't work. Gopaul luck aint Seepaul luck....there you go, the eyes have it.... :lol:

[oecarb]

That place is no bed of roses, even after 4 years of hard work, the hardship doesn't seem to have gone away.

I feel so lucky for myself, but so sorry for my friends.

I'd say to anyone who wants to leave "Rich Trinidad" to think carefully wbout where you are going to before taking the leap.

Interesting. Did these friends say why they are still here instead of back home?

[oecarb]

Well Falcon, as I was saying before, I think it was last year, remember that thread.....how England was a rough and tough place.....and people turn around and cuss meh for it....and I also warned Scorps, he has seen it for himself.....and I would gladly encourage Trinis....if you don't believe, then go and see the place for yourself.....

Some trinis might actually like England.....then good for you...others, who living a good life in Trinidad, will not appreciate the lifestyle of the UK....espeically if you live in a big house in Trinidad, driving a luxury car, working in a high paying job etc.....it just wouldn't work. Gopaul luck aint Seepaul luck....there you go, the eyes have it.... :lol:

Somebody, some people don't measure success only by material things. And, as you say, Gopaul luck aint Seepaul luck.

I would say that I have a ordinary three bedroomed house - mortgage paid off. It mightn't look like much to somebody living in a big house in T&T but it worth the same. I live in a small town with a low crime rate. I don't live in a gated community or have burglar bars on my windows. I don't drive a luxury car but, hey, a two year old Merc 300 is only about six months' salary - if I want one. My twelve/thirteen year old Toyota Carina still works like a dream and I could park it anywhere - even in the roughest part of London - and nobody go thief it. I have some money in the bank and I retiring next year with a reasonable pension + my state pension.

I still trying to make up my mind if I want to sell up and move back home and live on my British pensions or if I just want to move to the Scottish Highlands, buy a big house and a nice luxury motor caravan like this two year old one (http://motoring.friday-ad.co.uk/Adref/SN1351669/Web/FullAdDetails.asp) and me and the wife could drive round Europe and see France and Spain and Germany and Italy etc etc etc.

Not every Trini catching they nennen here. In fact I know quite a few who doing OK. And Scorpio friend and them, I cant see why they dont up sticks and go back. Unless something keeping them here that Scorpio don't understand. :twisted:

[dancerboy]

I know a couple of trinis in London who told me that they eager to pack up and call it a day in England to return to Trinidad.

They need a reality check from Dancerboy. :D THANKS A MILLION AMELIA.

DANCERBOY

[dancerboy]

I find it difficult to believe that after '4 years of hard work', ANYONE can be struggling in a place like England.

But I find you ent check me, like we ent frens or wha? :P

How is KFCSpicy? She's well?


Well Falcon, as I was saying before, I think it was last year, remember that thread.....how England was a rough and tough place.....and people turn around and cuss meh for it....and I also warned Scorps, he has seen it for himself.....and I would gladly encourage Trinis....if you don't believe, then go and see the place for yourself.....

Some trinis might actually like England.....then good for you...others, who living a good life in Trinidad, will not appreciate the lifestyle of the UK....espeically if you live in a big house in Trinidad, driving a luxury car, working in a high paying job etc.....it just wouldn't work. Gopaul luck aint Seepaul luck....there you go, the eyes have it.... :lol:
But if you enjoying de good life in T&T, or any other country, why would you want to leave. ISN'T THE ENJOYMENT OF LIFE ONE'S GOAL ? So if you have acheived that enjoyment, (and as old as i am )what are you looking for, adventure ?

DANCERBOY

[Falcon]

Oecarb, yuh move like ah US politician with yuh crime claim.

While you may live in a small town with a low crime rate, you're still part of Herts, gun crime central!!!!!!!! :lol:

[oecarb]

Oecarb, yuh move like ah US politician with yuh crime claim.

While you may live in a small town with a low crime rate, you're still part of Herts, gun crime central!!!!!!!! :lol:

Falcs, Hertfordshire is 632 square miles - almost exactly one third the size of Trinidad. Crime is highest on the borders with London and Essex to the south and the east. In the north and west you will find that the crime rate is much, much lower (except for Stevenage Town). I live in North Hertfordshire. Property too dam expensive in the south - round Barnet and so. :cry:

We have a friend living down there and her one bedroom flat worth more than our three bedroom house up here. And up here nice and quiet and countrify.



I read a throwaway remark in a report (my council) earlier this year. Page 6 refers


Kevin McGetrick was pleased to say that the themes were outlined very well and were
alongside important factors also identified by the Police Authority for this area. He added
that ‘reducing knife crime and gun crime’ was part of the ‘Safer Communities’ theme
and that pointing out the low number of such incidents within North Hertfordshire would
also be worthwhile.

It was noted that the safe community theme included a large number of indicators. As
the North Hertfordshire knife and gun crime rates are amongst the lowest in the country
there were not likely to be priority issues and could be removed from the list of example
indicators. It was recognised that data for those, along with the other national indicators,
will still need to be collected and reported

http://www.north-herts.gov.uk/lspminute ... ch08-4.pdf (http://www.north-herts.gov.uk/lspminutes_10march08-4.pdf)

The first photo is my street.

[snowbird]

Some trinis might actually like England.....then good for you...others, who living a good life in Trinidad, will not appreciate the lifestyle of the UK....espeically if you live in a big house in Trinidad, driving a luxury car, working in a high paying job etc.....it just wouldn't work. Gopaul luck aint Seepaul luck....there you go, the eyes have it.... :lol:

'Quality of Life' certainly does mean different things to different people :roll:

[Falcon]

Oecarb, so when is the UK forum barbque....summer's a-waning!!

[Beetle]

I thought this thread was about Trinidad and not England :?

so going back the the subject of this thread, I was sitting in a beautiful safe city park listening to a free live concert with a Jamacian friend this weekend, and I commented that this never happens in Trinidad and she laughed ha ha, and said that is because Trinidad build a whole lot of stadiums all over the place...

now my fellow ttonline poster please don't tell me what I should have told her about Jamacia, but think about dispassionately about what this girl said in the context of "TNT too Rich" ... ask yourself, are we really ????

[oecarb]

Some trinis might actually like England.....then good for you...others, who living a good life in Trinidad, will not appreciate the lifestyle of the UK....espeically if you live in a big house in Trinidad, driving a luxury car, working in a high paying job etc.....it just wouldn't work. Gopaul luck aint Seepaul luck....there you go, the eyes have it.... :lol:

'Quality of Life' certainly does mean different things to different people :roll:

Absolutely. And two people can be living the same lifestyle for different reasons. Take six people living in one room. It might be that they can't afford better.

But then again, it could be six young doctors earning £40,000 each and, by living in one room, they might be banking over £2,000 a month each to blow on a world tour (think Australians) or to support their family and/or to buy a house back in their country (think India or Pakistan or, maybe, Trini). :lol:

So I say: Don't feel sorry for them until you know why they living so.

[Scorpio]

I find it difficult to believe that after '4 years of hard work', ANYONE can be struggling in a place like England.

But I find you ent check me, like we ent frens or wha? :P

How is KFCSpicy? She's well?


Falcon, I specifically look at the lifestyle over there and compare it to mine, I visited a TRini couple there who are living in a place that is not even the size of my living room; and they over there for 4 years.

But let not your heart be troubled, we iz frenz, I'm going to be back and forth to England in the coming months so I will check you one of thse days.

KFC doing well :D

[Scorpio]

That place is no bed of roses, even after 4 years of hard work, the hardship doesn't seem to have gone away.

I feel so lucky for myself, but so sorry for my friends.

I'd say to anyone who wants to leave "Rich Trinidad" to think carefully wbout where you are going to before taking the leap.

Interesting. Did these friends say why they are still here instead of back home?

Yep, they believe they can make it there, and things will get easier, they don't want to go back Trini even for a visit because of all the crime, corruption, inflation, high cost of housing etc.

[oecarb]

I thought this thread was about Trinidad and not England :?

so going back the the subject of this thread, I was sitting in a beautiful safe city park listening to a free live concert with a Jamacian friend this weekend, and I commented that this never happens in Trinidad and she laughed ha ha, and said that is because Trinidad build a whole lot of stadiums all over the place...

now my fellow ttonline poster please don't tell me what I should have told her about Jamacia, but think about dispassionately about what this girl said in the context of "TNT too Rich" ... ask yourself, are we really ????

Beetle, First, the England diversion came about because of 007 saying that, in the UK (fourth richest country in the world) people are suffering.

I took that to mean that he expected the wealth to filter down. Many posters on this forum seem to think that the wealth should not be shared by all citizens - only the deserving ones. I happen to see nothing wrong with helping out the less fortunate, the disadvantaged and the under-priveleged - even if it means giving them a free ride - as in the UK.

Up with CEPEP and any other way that could be found to help put food in poor people mouth. And what wrong with building stadium? Ent it providing employment for architect, engineer, electrician, plumber, laboourer and encouraging young people to take up sport?

For years now, every time me and the wife land in Spain, we used to marvel at how much ruuning track and swimming pool and stadium the Spanish govt was building. Guess who win the Euro cup. Guess who win the men's Wimbledon chapionship. And guess which nation producing a healthier citizenship. That don't count? And heaven help the rest of the world if they had bullfighting in the Olympics.

[snowbird]

Well remember of late, Trinidad and Tobago is earning more money than it could spend? and instead of paying off the IMF and get them out of Trinidad, we instead, decide to spend money on other issues as if its growing on trees.

Right now, Bush is right in his opinion.....Trinidad has alot of money but is what we are doing with it.

And also, there are alot of other rich countries....but do you think the people are gaining from all its 'riches'?

Look at the UK for example.....The UK is the 4th richest country on this planet and when you look at how people live in the UK, they are simply earning enough pounds to survive. Where is all the money going in that country.

The Chancellor of Exchequer admitted some years ago while reading out the country's annual budget that most of Britain is living on the poverty line despite having all this wealth.

Look at how that country makes money.....46% of their GDP comes from taxes. They don't do much trading with other countries, and they also depend on international students paying exhorbitant fees to study in the UK.


On this one I actually agree with Bush :o

These policies were implemented for a reason, to help developing countries.
If a country is doing well financially (because of world markets, not because of anything that any one Trini is doing), but unfortunately is being governed by a bunch of incompetents, you cannot expect the more successful nations to continue to bend over backward to help them, too many other countries are in need.

With all of the oil money flowing through T&T that country has no reason to be in the state that it is in. You people are by no means Dubai, but take a lesson from them, use your money to develop you nation while you have it; right now you have enough dollars to up-grade everything in T&T; don't just let your Government throw up a few buildings, build a few stadiums then say ...... "look, we world class"; demand a better quality of life for everyone.
And while on the example of Dubai, it's time your Government started treating their citizens 'equal to or better than they do the visitors' (in Dubai their citizens are treated better than any outsider).
What's this..... "For Carnival", or "For the Test Matches", or for 'so and so event' that attracts foreign visitors, "We will put out more police"....... How come visitors safety gets more priority than yours?

[miktay]

I find it difficult to believe that after '4 years of hard work', ANYONE can be struggling in a place like England.

But I find you ent check me, like we ent frens or wha? :P

How is KFCSpicy? She's well?


Falcon, I specifically look at the lifestyle over there and compare it to mine, I visited a TRini couple there who are living in a place that is not even the size of my living room; and they over there for 4 years.

But let not your heart be troubled, we iz frenz, I'm going to be back and forth to England in the coming months so I will check you one of thse days.

KFC doing well :D

Am sure you'll be able to cut style with the big car, nice house and fancy job, especially with all them bandits who roaming the countyside nowadays. :lol:

But seriously, how will these accoutrements really help if you cannot find adequate medical attention should your child/parent/spouse get sick?

[oecarb]

Yep, they believe they can make it there, and things will get easier, they don't want to go back Trini even for a visit because of all the crime, corruption, inflation, high cost of housing etc.

Well Scorps, you can't give them wrong for trying.

Salaries in London very high. A teacher could make £30.000 easy. That is over $30,000 TT a month before tax. Cost of living astronomical, though. And tax. But a lot of Trinis, once they get accustomed to working hard, do very well. And if they in certain professions, they not likely ever to be outa work. And, with promotion, they could move up fast.

I retiring next year and we have to decide whether me and the wife should sell up and move back to T&T with we British pensions. If we move back, should we buy a big house and bring two foreign car and then become a target for the burglars, the carjackers and the kidnappers? Or should we pretend to be real poor so they go steups when they see we? In that case, could we really enjoy life?

Then we have to think that we getting older. We healthy now but we might need medical treatment later. In Britain we could get all kinda medical treatment on the NHS and when we over sixty we don't have to pay for prescriptions no matter how expensive the drugs are. And then we have to wonder if we should move 4,000 miles away from the kids and the grandchildren.

Oh Gorm. Look like I done make up my mind what I want to do, oui.

Miktay, I see what you getting at. :twisted:

[Somebody007]

Stay in the UK....Trinidad aint getting any better anytime soon.

Meanwhile, I saw a newsclip yesterday which spoke of a South American country being branded as 'rich' yet the people say the wealth is not filtering down. Massive demonstrations are taking place in the country's capital and people are on the verge of rioting out of fustration.

I still say not to be too critical of T & T......trust me, I have travelled and seen worse.

[oecarb]

Stay in the UK....Trinidad aint getting any better anytime soon.

Meanwhile, I saw a newsclip yesterday which spoke of a South American country being branded as 'rich' yet the people say the wealth is not filtering down. Massive demonstrations are taking place in the country's capital and people are on the verge of rioting out of fustration.

I still say not to be too critical of T & T......trust me, I have travelled and seen worse.

Somebody, I am not knocking T&T. It's just that I do like the UK. I am a British citizen and a citizen of the European Union. There are many things I like about my life. For instance, getting into my car, driving to Dover, getting on a ferry and driving off in Calais with signs - left to Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, Switzerland and Germany. right to western France, Spain and Portugal, south to southern France, Italy, Greece etc. Can't do his in an island. Also the crime situation is good where I live - even better than the rest of the UK.

As for wealth distribution in T&T, the country compares well with most Third World countries. Nationalisation of the oil and gas industries in the sixties meant money for secondary education and, I believe, tertiary as well as school dinners (I hear they are back?). Government house building and projects like CEPEP help the poor. It is true the country ranks about 45th in GDP per capita which puts it ahead of the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India and China) as well as South Africa and at least four EU countries (Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Romania) and all the countries of Central and South America except French Guyana - so more could be done. I would like to see more training available with pay for adults who would like to train in technical fields and an expansion of healthcare.

And you are right. There are worse countries.

I believe the South American country you refer to is Bolivia. Evo Morales, in his three years as president, has already done a lot to get the USA and the Multi-nationals on his case - nationalisation of the oil and gas industries, for example. One wonders who is funding the organisers of these demonstrations. And the fact that he is an indigenous person who wears his tribal costume at official functions pisses them off also. And his insistence on legalising the coca plant - used by his people for thousands of years before Columbus lost his way to India.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41242000/jpg/_41242308_evoclose_afp220.jpg
Evo Morales

[Scorpio]

Am sure you'll be able to cut style with the big car, nice house and fancy job, especially with all them bandits who roaming the countyside nowadays. :lol:

But seriously, how will these accoutrements really help if you cannot find adequate medical attention should your child/parent/spouse get sick?


I not cutting style on nobody, but I do count my blessings. I would find it disgusting to live in a rich country like Trinidad knowing that the hospitals don't have bed in case me or someone of my family need emergency medical attention.

[miktay]

Am sure you'll be able to cut style with the big car, nice house and fancy job, especially with all them bandits who roaming the countyside nowadays. :lol:

But seriously, how will these accoutrements really help if you cannot find adequate medical attention should your child/parent/spouse get sick?


I not cutting style on nobody, but I do count my blessings. I would find it disgusting to live in a rich country like Trinidad knowing that the hospitals don't have bed in case me or someone of my family need emergency medical attention.

Well that's the heart of the matter isnt it? Its a tradeoff:


Livin in Brit'n= Marginal weather, modest house, older car, good public transport, good health care, decent police service, access to Europe

Living in Tdad=Good weather, big house, new car, poor public transport, bad health care delivery, overwhelmed police services, access to the Carribbean and S. America.

[oecarb]

Well that's the heart of the matter isnt it? Its a tradeoff:


Livin in Brit'n= Marginal weather, modest house, older car, good public transport, good health care, decent police service, access to Europe

Living in Tdad=Good weather, big house, new car, poor public transport, bad health care delivery, overwhelmed police services, access to the Carribbean and S. America.

Yep. That is basically it. For people with good jobs. Except for the car. If you earn even an average salary here (£25,000) you could be talking six to eight months salary for a new car - starting from about £10,000 depending on model. But my car working very well. I don't see why I should get rid of it - yet.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/@images/toyota/toyota-avensis.jpg
New Toyota Avensis 1.6
Price: starts at £14,500
3 yr old - about £6,000 depending on mileage

[Scorpio]

Am sure you'll be able to cut style with the big car, nice house and fancy job, especially with all them bandits who roaming the countyside nowadays. :lol:

But seriously, how will these accoutrements really help if you cannot find adequate medical attention should your child/parent/spouse get sick?


I not cutting style on nobody, but I do count my blessings. I would find it disgusting to live in a rich country like Trinidad knowing that the hospitals don't have bed in case me or someone of my family need emergency medical attention.

Well that's the heart of the matter isnt it? Its a tradeoff:



Miktay, I am not disagreeing with you, but i just want to point out that I neither live in Trinidad nor the England, although I do live in a British Territory where the living is almost tax free, crime is at a bare mimimum, health care is good, and generally the place is a beautiful little wealthy paradise, something like what TNT could be if we didn't keep electing clueless politicians to office.

[oecarb]

Miktay, I am not disagreeing with you, but i just want to point out that I neither live in Trinidad nor the England, although I do live in a British Territory where the living is almost tax free, crime is at a bare mimimum, health care is good, and generally the place is a beautiful little wealthy paradise, something like what TNT could be if we didn't keep electing clueless politicians to office.

And if they didn't waste so much f**king time and energy thinking about race.

[miktay]

Miktay, I am not disagreeing with you, but i just want to point out that I neither live in Trinidad nor the England, although I do live in a British Territory where the living is almost tax free, crime is at a bare mimimum, health care is good, and generally the place is a beautiful little wealthy paradise, something like what TNT could be if we didn't keep electing clueless politicians to office.

But this is the reality of life in Tdad. Unless you know someone your healthcare is going to be marginal at best. Added to this the essential infrastructure and services that are the foundation of a stable society are crumbling.

And its not that its that much better in the US or UK...just that there is a lack of systematic procedures in place for improving them gradually over time.

And here is the shame. Flush with gas money they could be fixed in the long run if people were willing to roll up their sleeves and get into the less than glamorous details to address these shortcomings.

But that would mean hard wuk eh. Instead money is thrown at problems in mistaken belief that this alone will fix them.

So when you tell me life is better in Tdad vs UK because of the appearance of material wealth I have to question whether this due to the mere appearance of well being or whether there are real progressive increases in sustainable wealth and development.

In othe words :Form vs substance.

And sadly imho in tdad there is much more of the former at the expense of the latter.

And very few people seem to recognize this.

[oecarb]

When I first returned to T&T in the late seventies, I remember visiting some friends in a lovely home with a swimming pool and four toilets.

Problem was that when the water went off, you had to get a bucket of water from the swimming pool and fill the toilet cistern. THEN you could flush. :evil:

That is form over substance.

[Scorpio]

When I first returned to T&T in the late seventies, I remember visiting some friends in a lovely home with a swimming pool and four toilets.

Problem was that when the water went off, you had to get a bucket of water from the swimming pool and fill the toilet cistern. THEN you could flush. :evil:

That is form over substance.


ha ha ha ha ha ..... :D

[oecarb]

But, seriously, talking about form vs substance, I don't know how many people have had this experience:

You are studying at a university in a First World country.[/*:m:p9ly1sjw]
You get vacation jobs at firms that specialise in your field of study.[/*:m:p9ly1sjw]
You notice that recent graduates are treated virtually as juniors until they have a few years experience under their belts.[/*:m:p9ly1sjw]
You notice that they often worked in teams and were given limited responsibilities.[/*:m:p9ly1sjw]
You notice there was some old fella who was on hand to guide them and to give them advice.[/*:m:p9ly1sjw]
Often this old fella would have thirty or forty years experience and no formal qualifications.[/*:m:p9ly1sjw]
You get your degree and return to T&T[/*:m:p9ly1sjw]
You get a job and you suddenly find yourself in charge of multi-million dollar projects.[/*:m:p9ly1sjw]

[miktay]

IMHO those who are in the middle to upper middle tier of our country's business leadership place too much emphasis on formal education.

The fact that someone possess a degree doesn't automatically mean you can run a plant, division, or a department.

Dont know the reason for this...possibly form vs substance...but hiring someone based on their regurgitation of au courant jargon is naive...and can be expensive.

[oecarb]

IMHO those who are in the middle to upper middle tier of our country's business leadership place too much emphasis on formal education.

The fact that someone possess a degree doesn't automatically mean you can run a plant, division, or a department.

Dont know the reason for this...possibly form vs substance...but hiring someone based on their regurgitation of au courant jargon is naive...and can be expensive.

And if they can't do the job and they real good at bullsh*tting or they know people in high position, what happen then? They don't end up as effective as them CEPEP workers people does criticise but earning ten or twenty times the money and driving the big car and living in the big house?

I aint saying that a degree worthless and I aint saying that people with degrees can't run things. In fact people with degrees supposed to be more intelligent and intelligence + knowledge is good. But somebody, somewhere have to draw the line and define the level of responsibility and training required to do the job. In a developed country you would find a framework (because a lot of degrees come in the last fifty years or so and things been going longer generally) although in the last recession in the UK (1988-1992) a lot of middle and senior people lost their jobs and the ones that took over seem to be still having problems.

[IN-A-QUANDRY]

Trinidad is now considered High income by some standards but not an "advanced economy" You have to develop an economy not dependant on oil to qualify as "advanced" Our per capita GDP is around $16 000 US which means that we are on the throes of becoming First World. Most first world countries are way ahead of us though...around $35 000 US per capita and above.