COP Getting 90% of PNM & UNC Base!!!

[Parsifal]

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Now I have heard some seriously crazy talk in the past on the hustings but this one beats all!

So by Hulsie's logic Laventille (where the rapers of Indian women come from) and Felicity (which is clearly populated by "backward ******s" according to Anand Ramlogan because they support Panday) have suddenly switched their support to the COP.

Someone pass me the Jones Town Kool Aid that these people are drinking because I think I just saw a flying pig, my chicken just bit me with its teeth and Satan just telephoned me to send him a sweater, leggings and an overcoat.

[cm103]

She prob betting on the bandwagon effect that someone else posted on another thread. I'm a COP supporter and I'm not falling for that one.

The express have an article today about RLM and people switching sides to the COP, some even going PNM since Adesh didn't do anything for them.

You think anyone business with RLM and he bawling that Ramlogan go lose he deposit? It might be a close one but I really want to see RLM go he way back to private practice. Undoubtedly he will turn up like a bad pommerac when the next elections coming around.

[peanut]

I WILL STAY CLEAR OF WHAT HULSIE EITHER SMOKING AND/OR DRINKING :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[skl]

what you expect the woman to say ? we only getting middle class votes ? She have to appear confident.

[peanut]

CONFIDENT ... YES

DELUSIONAL .. ABSOLUTELY NOT! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Maccogirl]

Maybe Hulsie should of appealed to the hearts of the voting public but all of them so dam pigheaded that they keep pushing this nonsense about the UNC and PNM base dead, lord what will it take for these COP people to see what is going on? Yetming on the other hand like he want to cuss now when asked about the same question the 80% of the UNC base, what is wrong with these people.

The COP wants Kamla so bad but yet they go into Kamla's area and talk about her crawling on her belly and Ramlogan with his nonsense on backward indians. Is it lack of political experience or just downright foolishness that making them make this crucial mistakes, I just can't understand what is going on with them at this stage.

[lou_uk]

Hulsie: COP the first party

By Sean Douglas Saturday, October 13 2007

COP candidate for Couva North Hulsie Bhaggan last night oozed confidence as she declared the COP is no mere third party in the politics of Trinidad and Tobago but is the “first party.”

She was addressing a lively meeting at Montrose, Chaguanas.

She said the COP was on target to take 90 percent of the UNC vote and 90 percent of the PNM vote.

“People have united under Winston Dookeran,” she said in reassurance at those still awaiting a UNC/COP accommodation.

She said unlike their rival, the UNC Alliance, the COP does not believe in sitting in a back room in Emerald Plaza, St Augustine and making deals but rather has open and transparent processes.

Regarding criticisms of the supposed lack of charisma of COP leader Winston Dookeran, she said, “What is charisma? Is it going on stage and lying?”

She urged listeners to put aside the issue of race, declaring that one cannot take race and go to the grocery.

Alleging that the two other rival parties, UNC Alliance and PNM, were struggling to get candidates she declared that the COP has taken all the bright people adding, “We have left them with the dregs.”
“We are overflowing with candidates.”

The meeting was earlier addressed by Prakash Ramadhar, COP candidate for Caroni Central and Nirad Tewarie, COP candidate for Chaguanas East
.


Two questions for Hulsie when she logs on:
1. How does the COP screen?
2. Did you realise that PNM was the first party to present all 41 candidates?

Your overflowing with candidates comment cracks me up btw. Reminds me when Eddie Murphy said he used to get *meow* thrown at him while walking in the streets. So much *meow* that they used to be faling out his pockets. Speaking of pockets, wa bout Sando East? :D

[peanut]

LACK OF COP'S TESTICULAR FORTITUDE :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[cm103]

LACK OF COP'S TESTICULAR FORTITUDE :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This same coward party you need to join the UNC to make a difference? What's better? Panday's family and friends representing us? What about RLM? He mash up Bas party last time now he come back to "rescue" them? So the prodigal son returns just could pick and choose he seat? The UNC party now is full of yes-men who doing anything that Panday say. I not using my vote as a deterrant but rather as a mean to a better TnT.

Allyuh remember how Panday had court Barbara Burke for elections in 1995? Yes another alliance Bas mash up.

[Dispatcher]

Excerpt taken from today's Guardian. http://www.guardian.co.tt/news1.html

(COP) Constituency chairman Jameson Bahadur.... said the membership drive mounted by COP in St Augustine had paid rich dividends with over 5,000 joining the party, and daily scores were expressing interest in becoming Congress members.

“It is giving us a clear picture where we stand now,” said Bahadur, who predicted that by November 5 the party would have more than 8,000 members in St Augustine alone.

His estimate is 80 per cent of the UNC base and 30 per cent of PNM adherents in St Augustine had embraced the Congress.

===========================

With these can of calculations COP going straight to Whitehall.

[Dispatcher]

What about RLM? He mash up Bas party last time now he come back to "rescue" them? So the prodigal son returns just could pick and choose he seat?

Winston also abandoned Panday while in the NAR, lost his seat then came running back to Panday who kindly resuscitated his political career. And when he was handed the leadership he just felt he could have swept aside anyone who was anybody in the party and bring in his old NAR friends. He had Bhoe Tiwarie, Sahadeo Basdeo, Wilson, Mayers,,, all lined up for big positions in the UNC.

He's that man that's really to mashing up the party. But in your zeal to hate Panday you're being blinded to reality.


The UNC party now is full of yes-men who doing anything that Panday say. I not using my vote as a deterrant but rather as a mean to a better TnT.

So Ramesh is a yes man now. He was the man who brought Panday down. He can do it again. But again with your COP blindfolds on you can only reason nonsensically.


Allyuh remember how Panday had court Barbara Burke for elections in 1995? Yes another alliance Bas mash up.

Since you so knowledgeable about all these breakups tell us the details of why Babara Burke left to go with Team Unity.

[cm103]

[quote=cm103]What about RLM? He mash up Bas party last time now he come back to "rescue" them? So the prodigal son returns just could pick and choose he seat?

Winston also abandoned Panday while in the NAR, lost his seat then came running back to Panday who kindly resuscitated his political career. And when he was handed the leadership he just felt he could have swept aside anyone who was anybody in the party and bring in his old NAR friends. He had Bhoe Tiwarie, Sahadeo Basdeo, Wilson, Mayers,,, all lined up for big positions in the UNC.

He's that man that's really to mashing up the party. But in your zeal to hate Panday you're being blinded to reality.


The UNC party now is full of yes-men who doing anything that Panday say. I not using my vote as a deterrant but rather as a mean to a better TnT.

So Ramesh is a yes man now. He was the man who brought Panday down. He can do it again. But again with your COP blindfolds on you can only reason nonsensically.


Allyuh remember how Panday had court Barbara Burke for elections in 1995? Yes another alliance Bas mash up.

Since you so knowledgeable about all these breakups tell us the details of why Babara Burke left to go with Team Unity.[/quote:f7484]

Dispatcher, I would like to believe that with your seemingly rational method of thought you could see both sides of this situation. I myself was a former UNC supporter and party memeber who left due to the levels your Basdeo Panday decided to take the party in his attempt to retain control.

Lets get something straight that allyuh UNC supporters cannot seem to realize. Panday knows that Dookeran knows the economy of this country like few others and he was asked to become Central Bank Governor by Panday. The financial stability we enjoyed under the first UNC administration is partly his doing. You know what Manning told the man when his term was up? "You did a wonderful job but sorry I cannot keep you."

Dookrean also wasn't about to accept any puppet position in the party. If he was taking over Panday's old position then he should be afforded the same level of control that Panday had. Seems fair right? Well being a paper leader is nobody's aim. Look even Panday brought back RLM without consulting his party. If you can't see it's a one man show then I must ask who is the blind one here?

Ramesh is going to do whatever he wants to better Ramesh. He is at best an opportunist and a political scavenger. Where was he the last 4 years? You want to talk about Panday resurrecting a political career? Look no further than RLM. He talked about if the parties cannot unite then he was going to the people and having them unite. What happened to that?

I'm not sure if you understood my statement on yes-men. Well the same people who were not consulted to bring back RLM also had to wait to see who Panday would remove to give him a seat. Did anyone show any backbone there? Montano did and left, the other ones could just nod their heads, grin and say 'yes Bas'.

Barbara Burke made the deal with Panday to support him and some promises were made in return. Of those promises they got a Shouter Baptist holiday and some recognition. Have you ever heard the statement that Panday only ride people back to get where he wanted to go? This was one of thise cases. Barbara may have been idealistic in her expectations but she did feel betrayed by Panday shortly after he took office.

Dispatcher, please answer me this.

Do you really think that anyone else in that party besides Bas will become PM if the UNC wins? No matter whar Bas says about everyone has a chance. He is skiting the issue here by just quoting the law.

What kind of impact or fallout do you expect by electing a man currently being retried for corruption to the highest political office in the country? In my eyes that is shameful and embarrassing on the international scene but I'd like to hear your opinion in the matter.

[brenchris10]

Everyone has a right to an opinion.

[cm103]

Do you know what intelligent people are saying?
They say that a vote for the COP is a vote for PNM.
If COP does not join with UNCA now, and let's say that they win 16 seats and UNC wins 7 seat, and PNM wins 18 seats.........people are saying that COP will join PNM......as they supported PNM's bills in parliament so they have a liking for PNM.
They say that is why Gerard Yetming is so adamant that COP not join UNC.
They say that Siddiq Baksh wants Presidency and Gerard Yetming wants to be Speaker of the house without having to face fiery elections.
Comments please!

I really would like to know what people you are talking to for these far out ideas. That seems more like UNC propaganda rather than what intelligent people are saying.

Supporting a bill is not a good indication of political allegiance. How many other bills were passed with the support of the UNC in opposition ?

[Dispatcher]

Panday knows that Dookeran knows the economy of this country like few others and he was asked to become Central Bank Governor by Panday. The financial stability we enjoyed under the first UNC administration is partly his doing.
CM, NO one doubts that Dookeran knows the economy of the country.


Ramesh is going to do whatever he wants to better Ramesh. He is at best an opportunist and a political scavenger.
Most people especially politicians are opportunists. But at least Ramesh has the ability to deal with many of the issues affecting the country. And he has already demonstrated that. He is willing to expose anything he sees as detrimental to the integrity of our public affairs.


Where was he the last 4 years?
I believe he wasn't too far from the public eye. Dealing with many social issues facing the underprivileged. But where was Selby Wilson, Assam, Sadiq, Mayers, Govindra Roopnarine, Hulsie, Humphreys?


You want to talk about Panday resurrecting a political career? Look no further than RLM.
When you look at Panday's career from 1966 it shows a magnanimous person always willing to embrace people of all creeds and races, regardless of past histories, to bring this country together for the betterment of every man, woman and child of this country.


He talked about if the parties cannot unite then he was going to the people and having them unite. What happened to that?
Yes he tried but COP would not entertain the request with reasonable demands. What he is doing now is going to the people and asking them to unite. Right now he is in Saith park with the people, earlier he was in Tabaquite, later he will be in Felicity trying to take the message of unity.



Dookrean also wasn't about to accept any puppet position in the party. If he was taking over Panday's old position then he should be afforded the same level of control that Panday had. Seems fair right? Well being a paper leader is nobody's aim.

Leading for the good of the party or for your own reason, influenced by external forces, are 2 different things. When are you going to realise that the majority members of the party were against what Dookeran was doing including every member of the executive. Panday was not even around in the party at that time.


Look even Panday brought back RLM without consulting his party. If you can't see it's a one man show then I must ask who is the blind one here?

Panday brought him back? You know all that happened behind the scene? The first person I heard asking Ramesh to fight a seat was Warner. Of course we do not know all that went on behind the scene. But I see picture of Kamla and Ramesh arm in arm after last Sunday Rally. I'm sure the majority of UNC members were happy with the return of Ramesh. Regardless of past problems there are still people who are willing to forgive, though I hope not forget.



I'm not sure if you understood my statement on yes-men. Well the same people who were not consulted to bring back RLM also had to wait to see who Panday would remove to give him a seat. Did anyone show any backbone there? Montano did and left, the other ones could just nod their heads, grin and say 'yes Bas'.

I understood very well. How do you know people were not consulted? Who came out and said they were not consulted? Yes, Montano did not agree and he left. I respect him following his conscience. No one else did. Are you just going to assume they are 'Yes Men' because you did not agree with the decision?

My point was if Panday only wanted Yes Men he would not even entertain the thought of bringing RLM back in the party. Because RLM is certainly no Yes Man. We know that Ramesh can bring down Panday. We should be glad that he is back, a person who can ensure there are checks and balances in the government.


Barbara Burke made the deal with Panday to support him and some promises were made in return. Of those promises they got a Shouter Baptist holiday and some recognition. Have you ever heard the statement that Panday only ride people back to get where he wanted to go? This was one of thise cases. Barbara may have been idealistic in her expectations but she did feel betrayed by Panday shortly after he took office.

Panday kept his promise and granted the SB their public holiday. Something no PNM government ever entertained. You haven't told me what Panday did to Babera Burke to betray her. It's only ole talk about ridin' people back I hearing from you.



Do you really think that anyone else in that party besides Bas will become PM if the UNC wins? No matter whar Bas says about everyone has a chance. He is skiting the issue here by just quoting the law.

I can't say. Warner was chosen as the leader with Panday as advisor. But I have a gut feeling that Panday may be the person the majority may choose as PM.

I am listening to the parties on the platforms. We are still awaiting the manifestoes. I am choosing a party who can do the best for this country. As long as the leader is no Idi Amin I will vote for that party that can control crime, food prices, enhance agriculture, relieve our traffic woes, create sustainable jobs, improve education, etc, etc..

When you only let personalities get in the way especially when you don't know the whole story behind every piece of ole talk you can be misled.



What kind of impact or fallout do you expect by electing a man currently being retried for corruption to the highest political office in the country? In my eyes that is shameful and embarrassing on the international scene but I'd like to hear your opinion in the matter.

Although such an event does not augur well for the country should it get to that stage with a guilty verdict, based on the history of this case and all the implications of political vindictiveness I believe Panday would be cleared of the charges.

But even if it does go all the way to a guilty verdict and Panday gets thrown in jail, I believe the people in the UNCA are more than credible enough to run the country for the betterment of the country.

However if the COP were to get into the corridors of power I'd be extremely embarrassed with a government representing me for 5 years with people like Ramlogan who call UNC supporters c00lies, Hulsie the racist, Wilson and Dookeran initiators of economic hardships on the population, Devant Maraj another racist, convicted drug dealer in Tobago. I wonder what ministries they would be running?

And to have Dookeran a man who say he's not willing to sit down with a senior statesman of this country, a man who brought him into politics in 1986, gave him big job in CB, give him safe seat again, then hand him leadership of a party in his hands yet he can't even sit down and talk with him. That kind of man I'd be embarrassed to have as have a Prime Minister.

[peanut]

Dispatcher,

I have to admire your level of patience in explaing things to these close minded people who simple refuse to see the forest for the trees.

[sam48]

In order for me to support the UNC once again I am waiting for Panday and Ramesh to answer the following.

To Panday-- Why did you call an election after only one year in office instead of making the necessary compromises with the disaffected in the interest of the hundreds of thousands like me who votedfor the UNC and who had high hopes for the country under a UNC govt. What better opportunity to unify the country than when your party is holding the reins of power. Why did you betray us?

To Ramesh-- Apart from your known impatient lust for power, Why did you conspire with Sudama and "Trojan horse" Ralph Maraj to effectively destroy the UNC govt after only one year in office. Why did you personally dig up information on the Panday's London Bank account while you were AG and then hand it over to the PNM after you were fired by Panday, volunteering to the PNM to prosecute him as a criminal, the same criminal that you are now willing to have as your leader onceagain
Did you for one second consider the hundreds of thousands of people who put that govt in office and that your actions would betray them? Why did you betray us?

[peanut]

In order for me to support the UNC once again I am waiting for Panday and Ramesh to answer the following.

To Panday-- Why did you call an election after only one year in office instead of making the necessary compromises with the disaffected in the interest of the hundreds of thousands like me who votedfor the UNC and who had high hopes for the country under a UNC govt. What better opportunity to unify the country than when your party is holding the reins of power. Why did you betray us?

To Ramesh-- Apart from your known impatient lust for power, Why did you conspire with Sudama and "Trojan horse" Ralph Maraj to effectively destroy the UNC govt after only one year in office. Why did you personally dig up information on the Panday's London Bank account while you were AG and then hand it over to the PNM after you were fired by Panday, volunteering to the PNM to prosecute him as a criminal, the same criminal that you are now willing to have as your leader onceagain
Did you for one second consider the hundreds of thousands of people who put that govt in office and that your actions would betray them? Why di you betray us?


You and that propoganda! Stop blaming Ramesh for what he didn't do ... gaaawwwd man, all yuh like a dog with a rotten bone.

Andre Monteil, the PNM Party Treasurer and CLICO exec. was the one who had the Panday's banking information [it's in the court records]. He got it from Duprey who instructed Monteil to transfer the scholarship funds to the account.

HELLO!!!!! The PNM got the info from their Treasurer!

[cm103]

Dispatcher, while I disagree with most of your facts as being overly idealistic, I do still appreciate your open outlook on this matter. I especially admire that you are awaiting the manifestos to be released before really making a decision on who to support. For now you seem to be leaning towards one party but I see them in a different light and cannot see how they can change their tune in their manifesto. Time alone will tell.

Peanut, what Dispatcher and I are engaging in is called a debate. Though I see him as a current UNC supporter now he/she is actually presenting his/her case in an organized manner rather than just attacking for attacking sake or coming on here just to make noise and cry about Manning getting his Executive Presidency.

While you are here let me as you this. Since you are a former PNM activist who I presume supported the PNM with Manning at the helm. Why now are you so against him? Is it because of the dictator tendencies that are too much to ignore at this point?

If there is any truth to my presumption then please try and understand that I feel the same way about Panday and the UNC party at the moment. What he has done for the rights of the workers and people in past years cannot be forgotten but in my eyes it seems that he has lost his way and the aim of what he originally set out to do. Though some may see him still championing the cause of the people I see him using it as a mask over his real ambition.

[peanut]

Dispatcher, while I disagree with most of your facts as being overly idealistic, I do still appreciate your open outlook on this matter. I especially admire that you are awaiting the manifestos to be released before really making a decision on who to support. For now you seem to be leaning towards one party but I see them in a different light and cannot see how they can change their tune in their manifesto. Time alone will tell.

Peanut, what Dispatcher and I are engaging in is called a debate. Though I see him as a current UNC supporter now he/she is actually presenting his/her case in an organized manner rather than just attacking for attacking sake or coming on here just to make noise and cry about Manning getting his Executive Presidency.

I am not making noise about the Executive Presidency as it will be accomplish if the PNM wins a special majority. What I am complaing about is how some people cannot seem to get over personalites and do what is in the best interest of T&T with full knowledge that our DEMOCRACY is under threat

While you are here let me as you this. Since you are a former PNM activist who I presume supported the PNM with Manning at the helm. Why now are you so against him? Is it because of the dictator tendencies that are too much to ignore at this point?

My reasons for being against Mr. Manning for most part is personal

If there is any truth to my presumption then please try and understand that I feel the same way about Panday and the UNC party at the moment. What he has done for the rights of the workers and people in past years cannot be forgotten but in my eyes it seems that he has lost his way and the aim of what he originally set out to do. Though some may see him still championing the cause of the people I see him using it as a mask over his real ambition.

You are entitled to your opinion of Mr. Panday and to compare my feelings against Mr. Manning and the PNM and your opinion of Panday is like comparing apples and grapefruits.

[cm103]

Dispatcher, while I disagree with most of your facts as being overly idealistic, I do still appreciate your open outlook on this matter. I especially admire that you are awaiting the manifestos to be released before really making a decision on who to support. For now you seem to be leaning towards one party but I see them in a different light and cannot see how they can change their tune in their manifesto. Time alone will tell.

Peanut, what Dispatcher and I are engaging in is called a debate. Though I see him as a current UNC supporter now he/she is actually presenting his/her case in an organized manner rather than just attacking for attacking sake or coming on here just to make noise and cry about Manning getting his Executive Presidency.

I am not making noise about the Executive Presidency as it will be accomplish if the PNM wins a special majority. What I am complaing about is how some people cannot seem to get over personalites and do what is in the best interest of T&T with full knowledge that our DEMOCRACY is under threat

While you are here let me as you this. Since you are a former PNM activist who I presume supported the PNM with Manning at the helm. Why now are you so against him? Is it because of the dictator tendencies that are too much to ignore at this point?

My reasons for being against Mr. Manning for most part is personal


If there is any truth to my presumption then please try and understand that I feel the same way about Panday and the UNC party at the moment. What he has done for the rights of the workers and people in past years cannot be forgotten but in my eyes it seems that he has lost his way and the aim of what he originally set out to do. Though some may see him still championing the cause of the people I see him using it as a mask over his real ambition.

You are entitled to your opinion of Mr. Panday and to compare my feelings against Mr. Manning and the PNM and your opinion of Panday is like comparing apples and grapefruits.

Well take this under consideration. I see Panday showing more traits of a dictator and hiding behind a screen of making it seem like he is doing it all for the people.

If you are so against the Manning right now because of a personal reason then why are you faulting the political parties now for not uniting for what you perceive to be personal reasons?

[peanut]

If you are so against the Manning right now because of a personal reason then why are you faulting the political parties now for not uniting for what you perceive to be personal reasons?

Show me a post in which I faulted any political party for not uniting for what I percieve to be personal reasons.

SIRIUS .. FORGIVE ME FOR SHOUTING HERE EH,

CM103! ......I AM FAULTING THE COP BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT WORKING IN THE BEST INTEREST OF, SO AS TO PROTECT THE DEMOCRACY OF T&T

Ah done shout eh Sirius.

[cm103]

You did mention in another post that you blame the COP for this current impasse between the opposition parties. Looking at the offer for unity, what were the terms for the coalition from the UNC side?

Making sure that Manning does not get his constitutional majority is one thing, but looking past that you offer no real alternative.

[peanut]

let us go again.

Make no mistake PNM is going to win this election ... and in case you missed my alternative here it is again ...an accommodation to have a bigger opposition so there will be checks and balances in our Parliament.

In other words Hun, Manning cannot play de arse with the people's patrimony, there cannot be any changes to the Constitution without the Opposition support etc. The Gov't will be reined in and forced to take care of the "people's" business.

[cm103]

Peanut, if things continue on this present course I wouldn't doubt the PNM will win this round. If they do and the UNC loses seats then the UNC as a political force under Panday will be diminished, unless he makes a last gasp at age 80 or so.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the constitutional motion require the support of 2/3rds of parliament? Right now that's estimated to be 27-28 seats. Right now they're projected to be leading in 24 and possibly taking those.

About the 2/3rds majority, I'm not 100% sure so someone please let me know if my figure is off.

[peanut]

it is 2/3 majority which will be 27-28 seats.

About Panday, unless mother nature is extremely kind to him, this is definitely his last hurrah.

[Parsifal]

For theumpteenth time. A 2/3 majority in the Lower House does not mean squat!!!

You still require 2/3 in the Senate too. that means the Independent Senators have to vote en bloc with the Government.

I surely cant see that one happening!

So all of this fear mongering is really nonsense.

Now I hope that you all can respect the mind of Eric Williams even more now as this was one of the safe guards built into the 1976 Republican Constitution. Get a copy and read it...it is all quite clear.

So let us deal with the real issues because this not one of them.

One of the few good ideas in this campaign that has come up for consideration is the right of recall. i think we needed that a long time now as the country would have spared some of those dead beat MPs who infested all the parliaments since 1962.

[cm103]

Thanks for clearing that up Parsifal and Peanut.

[Scorpio]

Parliment chooses the President who chooses the Independant senators, and the government Mp's will usually vote for the PM's choice (of president).

So, I don't know how much of a safe guard the independant senators is nah.

[peanut]

There is no safeguard! Can anyone remember anything that passed in the Lower House that failed in the Senate? I don't!

[Parsifal]

Parliment chooses the President who chooses the Independant senators, and the government Mp's will usually vote for the PM's choice.

So, I don't know how much of a safe guard the independant senators is nah.

Are you saying then that Sir Ellis Clarke, Noor Hassanali, ANR Robinson and Prof. Maxwell Richards were all stooges and yes men for the sitting administrations of the time?

As I have said time and time again the power of the President lies within his appointments. That is why we have had the likes of Gerald Furness-Smith, Mary King, John Spence, Martin Daly etc. No one could ever say that people of this caliber would go along with anything that would be to the detriment of this country. Nor can it ever be said that they have been supportive of the Government whether it be PNM or UNC.

Case in point. When Patrick manning objected to ANR Robinson being nominated by the UNC it was not done out of personal malice for the individual nor that he felt he could not do the job but rather out of a sense of propriety. i.e. one should not use the Presidency to secure political gain. We will never know the truth of the deal that was wrought between Panday and ANR Robinson but clearly ANR Robinson acted in accordance with his personal beliefs to break the 18-18 deadlock. He still remained independent of any personal political considerations in my view.

So I think we are safe in that regard. Not everyone involved in national life is a sleaze......if they were in the majority our Defence Force would have staged a coup quite a long time ago. Now I wonder if that is a scenario that anyone on this board would like to countenance.

[Parsifal]

There is no safeguard! Can anyone remember anything that passed in the Lower House that failed in the Senate? I don't!

There have been a few. One that comes to mind was the original bill for the creation of the Tobago House of Assembly in 1978. It was re-drafted and passed in 1979 so that the first THA elections were held in 1980. This bill required a constitutional amendment.

The reason why it does not happen that often is that in either the PNM or UNC lead administrations a great deal of work does go on to get bills up to scratch.

Also, and this is very important, most bills need only a simple majority in both Houses so a 2/3 requirement is not necessary so the question does not arise.

To change the constitution requires a much higher level of agreement.

There are some bills that get passed without adequate scrutiny in my opinion and I feel that the Opposition must take the blame when this occurs because their powers for highlighting and raising the awareness level of the public are considerable. Cheap politics do not help we the people in any form or fashion.

[Parsifal]

Just to add to the above, the PNM has had 2/3 majority in the Lower House only twice since 1976. During 1976 to 1981 and then again in 1981 to 1986. There were precious few attempts to bring forward bills to amend the constitution in any way.

During the NAR 33-3 neither did they. So once again the question did not arise.

Since then we have had 21-15, then 17-17-2, then 19-16-1, then 18-18 and now 20-16. So once again any bill requiring a 2/3 support in the House have been infrequent. Only the Police Service Amendment bill and the Bail bill come to mind. The former has been defeated in the Lower House and the latter has conditions as to its renewal which received support in the Senate.

Once again we as a people do have people who do things for the best of the country first and foremost.

[brenchris10]

Do you know what intelligent people are saying?
They say that a vote for the COP is a vote for PNM.
If COP does not join with UNCA now, and let's say that they win 16 seats and UNC wins 7 seat, and PNM wins 18 seats.........people are saying that COP will join PNM......as they supported PNM's bills in parliament so they have a liking for PNM.
They say that is why Gerard Yetming is so adamant that COP not join UNC.
They say that Siddiq Baksh wants Presidency and Gerard Yetming wants to be Speaker of the house without having to face fiery elections.
Comments please!

I really would like to know what people you are talking to for these far out ideas. That seems more like UNC propaganda rather than what intelligent people are saying.

Supporting a bill is not a good indication of political allegiance. How many other bills were passed with the support of the UNC in opposition ?


INTELLIGENT PEOPLE I REPEAT

[nikkidan]

if the thread title is really true then we would have had the same kind of vibe as in 1986. in terms of the campaign.
that is not the case now.

[cm103]

Do you know what intelligent people are saying?
They say that a vote for the COP is a vote for PNM.
If COP does not join with UNCA now, and let's say that they win 16 seats and UNC wins 7 seat, and PNM wins 18 seats.........people are saying that COP will join PNM......as they supported PNM's bills in parliament so they have a liking for PNM.
They say that is why Gerard Yetming is so adamant that COP not join UNC.
They say that Siddiq Baksh wants Presidency and Gerard Yetming wants to be Speaker of the house without having to face fiery elections.
Comments please!

I really would like to know what people you are talking to for these far out ideas. That seems more like UNC propaganda rather than what intelligent people are saying.

Supporting a bill is not a good indication of political allegiance. How many other bills were passed with the support of the UNC in opposition ?


INTELLIGENT PEOPLE I REPEAT


And I repeat that is only propaganda. The only allegiance that I remember is when RLM went to the PNM to help remove the UNC from office. That is the same RLM that the COP members look upon as a traitor.

Why would the COP kill their voter base by aligning themselves with the PNM? If I came out and said that 'intelligent' people were saying the same about the UNC and Bas would make that deal if they made him PM then would you believe it?

[brenchris10]

Maybe you are right.

[Scorpio]

Parliment chooses the President who chooses the Independant senators, and the government Mp's will usually vote for the PM's choice.

So, I don't know how much of a safe guard the independant senators is nah.

Are you saying then that Sir Ellis Clarke, Noor Hassanali, ANR Robinson and Prof. Maxwell Richards were all stooges and yes men for the sitting administrations of the time?.

Parsifal, forget what I think, and look at this from the point of view of the PNM, NAR and UNC, if these men were all so independant, then tell me :

Why did NAR feel the need to replace Ellis Clarke in 1986?
Why did PNM replace Noor in 1991?
Why did UNC install Robinson after winning in 1995
Why did Robinson saddle us with moron Manning in 2000 after falling out with UNC ?
Why did the PNM install Richards, the same man they were touting to be speaker in 2000 as Prez ?

When has any of these men ever defined the administration who installed them ?

[Parsifal]

The NAR replaced Ellis Clarke as he was viewed as part of the "old guard" when they swept into office in 1986. Some in the NAR argued that this should not have been done. This was well documented and debated at the time but such is life.

In 1991 the PNM retained Noor Hassanali even though he himself asked that he not be re-nominated. He subsequently changed his mind when Panday agreed to support his re-nomination when the UNC prospective nominee ultimately declined.

In 1996 the UNC put forward ANR Robinson as part of the deal that was brokered between Panday and ANR for the two Tobago seats to support the UNC when it was 17-17-2. The PNM nominee was Justice Lucky. This was when Manning said that Panday should not be making back room deals for the highest office in the land. ANR then proceeds to become head of State and in his first remarks at the inauguration he publicly thanks Dr. Eric Williams for the role that he played in his development as a national figure. In that instant I think Panday knew he could not control him. His actions in the 18-18 tie speak volumes of his independent nature.

In 2002 ANR declined re-nomination on health grounds as both he and Patricia Robinson were in ill health.

So that is a brief history. I don't think that the reasons for any of the appointments was overtly political with the exception of ANR in 1996. However by their appointments I do not think any of the Presidents has leaned one way or the other. They may have been privately sympathetic but in their execution of their office they have done us all proud.

I strongly believe that all of them because of their extensive education and contributions in national life has made them all patriots of the highest order.

[Parsifal]

Parliment chooses the President who chooses the Independant senators, and the government Mp's will usually vote for the PM's choice.

So, I don't know how much of a safe guard the independant senators is nah.

Are you saying then that Sir Ellis Clarke, Noor Hassanali, ANR Robinson and Prof. Maxwell Richards were all stooges and yes men for the sitting administrations of the time?.

Parsifal, forget what I think, and look at this from the point of view of the PNM, NAR and UNC, if these men were all so independant, then tell me :

Why did NAR feel the need to replace Ellis Clarke in 1986?
Why did PNM replace Noor in 1991?
Why did UNC install Robinson after winning in 1995
Why did Robinson saddle us with moron Manning in 2000 after falling out with UNC ?
Why did the PNM install Richards, the same man they were touting to be speaker in 2000 as Prez ?

When has any of these men ever defined the administration who installed them ?

BTW. Next time get your history right......Noor Hassanali remained as president under the 1st Manning administration from 2001 to 2005 and President Richards was only appointed in 2002 and not 2000.

[bluemellow]

The COP wants Kamla so bad but yet they go into Kamla's area and talk about her crawling on her belly and Ramlogan with his nonsense on backward indians. Is it lack of political experience or just downright foolishness that making them make this crucial mistakes, I just can't understand what is going on with them at this stage.


Hmm... The COP wants Kamla so bad? Did the COP give anyone 48hour/ 6pm deadline to join their bandwagon?
Does Winston Dookeran publicly ridicule Kamla, Bas or even Jack?
Please spare us. The UNC and their core supporters are so brainwashed it is no longer funny. They were the SAME group of people who were ready to crucify Ramesh "Nemakharam" Maharaj as dictated by Bas.
Now Bas calls for the crucifixion of Anand Ramlogan and Winston Dookeran and probably anyone else who has the backbone to stand up to his lying, thieving, manipulative ways.
It is sad to see that this percentage of the public cannot see the light of day. Basdeo Panday is corrupt, selfish and cannot in any way, shape or form care one bit about Trinidad and Tobago. The UNC has no vision. Their candidates are bankrupt.

One can only hope that UNC supporters can wisen up and see the mess this country will be in if either the PNM or the UNC regain office.

[JPersad]

Hmm... The COP wants Kamla so bad? Did the COP give anyone 48hour/ 6pm deadline to join their bandwagon?
Does Winston Dookeran publicly ridicule Kamla, Bas or even Jack?
Please spare us. The UNC and their core supporters are so brainwashed it is no longer funny. They were the SAME group of people who were ready to crucify Ramesh "Nemakharam" Maharaj as dictated by Bas.
Now Bas calls for the crucifixion of Anand Ramlogan and Winston Dookeran and probably anyone else who has the backbone to stand up to his lying, thieving, manipulative ways.
It is sad to see that this percentage of the public cannot see the light of day.[b] Basdeo Panday is corrupt, selfish and cannot in any way, shape or form care one bit about Trinidad and Tobago. The UNC has no vision.Their candidates are bankrupt.

One can only hope that UNC supporters can wisen up and see the mess this country will be in if either the PNM or the UNC regain office.
But will the grassroot take note when they cast their ballots >?

[vaio]

nope

[peanut]

Bluemellow have you ever heard the line "Politicians make strange bedfellows?" Ask Manning and Rowley, they hate each other but they sticking together.

Just wait and see, after the election how many of them will come back to the UNC.

[JPersad]

Bluemellow have you ever heard the line "Politicians make strange bedfellows?" Ask Manning and Rowley, they hate each other but they sticking together.

Just wait and see, after the election how many of them will come back to the UNC.
After the election , Panday will mash up the UNC , as soon as RLM and Kamla make their play .
I see Kamla touting she self as the next PM .That woman could take abuse !

[deathwinger]

Hmm... A lot of predictions here have really not come to past.

I was just looking back, to see how confident the COP was back then, how STRONG they sounded, they didn't want political accomodation, they decided they would go it alone, surely they should have won AT LEAST one seat, the NATCA poll was a blatant lie created by UNC themselves. Now, they are silent....very very silent. :twisted:


Onward to Local my dear friends? :lol: :lol: