PDA

View Full Version : Valley says Manning on road to dictatorship



TheLight
10-09-2007, 07:41 AM
If you wasn’t concern before be very concern now!
What Valley says

Kenneth Valley alleges that PNM political leader PM Patrick Manning is demonstrating a “dictatorial attitude.”
He speaks of guarding against Manning getting a special majority “that will allow for the executive presidency through the back door.”
He promises to help Dr Amery Browne win the Diego Martin Central seat
BY GAIL ALEXANDER

Outgoing People’s National Movement (PNM) Diego Martin Central MP Kenneth Valley is concerned that the political leader of his party, Patrick Manning, is demonstrating a “dictatorial attitude.”

In his first candid interview since his rejection and the PNM’s central executive approved Manning’s recommendation of Dr Amery Browne as the candidate for Diego Martin Central, Valley said he had no row with Manning, and did not know what had caused the situation.

He said he had not discussed it with Manning beyond the initial issue of the PNM’s Bill Johnson performance poll. Valley said:

“I paid no mind to such polls. Mr Manning knows my capacity for work at the constituency level and the national level. So there was no deep discussion on the issue.

“He wanted to offer alternatives, and I said I would not negotiate for my seat—I would be an MP or out of office. And that was the last of it.”

Asked to explain his statement about forces binding together, Valley replied:

“I said that everyone has an obligation to be guided by one’s conscience, and if you see what is happening and you have an interest in the country in doing what you think is right, then you have a duty to take a stand.

“I am saying that if you perceive action that is dictatorial, and if you think that someone is hoping to be executive president, you have to ask if you want a constitutional dictator and you have to make that decision.

“Everyone has to decide. Therefore, I’m saying that persons with good principles ought to do what is required in the situation to deal with it.”

Asked if he was referring to Manning’s proposals for an executive president, Valley replied:

“You can draw your own conclusions.” He added:

“The PNM has been, or is, an excellent party. It has done much good for T&T, and if I could make a distinction between the PNM and the current political leader, I would have.

“While I support the PNM to win elections, we need to guard against a special majority that will allow for the executive presidency through the back door.”

Valley recalled that when he resigned as deputy leader in 1998—when he had a disagreement with Manning—he had said then that he would not work with someone who demonstrated a dictatorial atitude.

“After a five-hour meeting then, I thought we had agreed on a course of action. But now it is glaring that the gentleman is going down that road and I am seeing clearly, now, his intent.

“When you consider that it is the political leader alone who determines the 41candidates, and when you consider that as Prime Minister he will make the 16 senatorial appointments in a government; couple that with if he gets 32 seats he will go for an executive presidency...Understand what that means!

“That is my concern. There are some who would say it is a case of sour grapes. I could have done like others and shut my mouth and be a senator or an ambassador, since alternatives to being an MP were offered.

“But this is a fundamental principle, and while I say I love my party and I am loyal to the PNM, I love my country more.”

Smear campaign

Valley said he had nothing personal against Manning, “but he has taken certain actions which show certain traits that are not in the best interest of my country.

“I have taken a position that while in some ways he has done extremely well for T&T, I think he has demonstrated that his actions are clearly not in the best interests of T&T.

“Without his approval, none of the 41 candidates would have gotten their seats. It didn’t seem to matter what the party groups or constituencies wanted.”

Asked if Manning’s action was high-handed, Valley continued:

“You have to draw your own conclusions. I was unopposed at the constituency level. I got the support of the executive and the majority of the members of the screening committee.

“It was the political leader, using his veto power, that opposed me and that stopped me from representing my constituency.

“The letter of the law gives him that veto power. But whether it was in keeping with the spirit of the law and the PNM constitution and whether it respected the democracy the party is known for, is another thing.”

Valley said after he presented his case to PNM’s central executive last Friday, he asked the members to make a decision on the type of party they wanted.

He admitted that he was surprised that the central executive decided in favour of the political leader’s recommendations instead of his.

“But one can understand it, since I understand that the political leader had told them ‘if we backed down on the issue’ he ‘could as well go home.'”

Valley dismissed allegations that a $2-million gambling debt which he incurred had to be paid by a contracting company.

“That’s a smear campaign that comes out of the woodwork in times like this. It is an evil part of the party I’d like to see exterminated, but until that time we’ll have to live with it.

“They can’t understand when an individual stands on principle.

“The PNM, for me, is still the best party in T&T. We’ve done very well in 50 years. From time to time we’ve had individuals that have tried to subvert the party’s good intentions.

“Dr (Eric) Williams faced a similar situation in 1976, but his actions were quite different.”

Valley said he would remain with the PNM.

“I hope to bring closure to this. I have done what I feel I had an obligation to do...bring it to the national community and let the people make their own decision.

“There’s nothing more for me to do on this issue at this time.”

And the public won’t see Valley on a COP or UNC platform for this election campaign, he assured.

Valley to help Browne win seat

Valley made it clear he had no intention of leaving the PNM and that he intended to assist PNM Diego Martin Central candidate Dr Amery Browne to keep the seat in the PNM.

Valley said Browne had been seeking a meeting with him and that he agreed to meet with him tomorrow to help him win the seat.

“I intend to assist Dr Browne with the campaign and as of November 5, I become citizen Ken.

“I’ll do my bit to ensure that the legacy I worked hard for in Diego Martin Central will not be destroyed. I’ve done soul- searching...I’ve worked hard in my seat for 17 years and we have unfinished business.

“Dr Browne has done me nothing. I have no fight with him. Therefore, I’ll provide him with the support to keep the seat in the loving hands of the PNM.

“After 17 years, I have to take care of the people I represented. They have nothing to do with my feelings or the principled stand I feel I must take with respect to the actions of the political leader.”

Valley said he’d met key members of his executive yesterday, and asked everyone to pull together.

Asked about plans for his future—political or otherwise—Valley said he would be 60 on February 8th.

“While I thought I would have served another five years, they have now given me five years to pursue a new career—whatever that will be.”

As for his tenure as deputy leader, Valley said the political leader could terminate that appointment at any time.

After yesterday, he said, he was finished saying any more on the issue.

(See Page 9

http://www.guardian.co.tt/news5.html

Scorpio
10-09-2007, 07:46 AM
He isnt saying anything the objective observer did not already know.

Cry me a river, Ken.

Somebody tell me didn't Occah Seepaul call Manning a Dictator ? Didn'tManning's actions in that Occah Seepaul incident smack of dictatorship ?

Didn't Valley back up Manning and tell Occah she can run but she cyah hide ??

Cry me a river, you bloody moron !!!

reno01tt
10-09-2007, 11:05 AM
In Trinidad and Tobago Politics it seems that every thing a Party or Pilitical Leader does is OK untill it happens to you... This is the case with Ken and we see the same with Kamla. When Dooks was dumped by Panday, Kamla supported him (Panday) now she is on the recieving end and feels the hurt and betrayal of being sidelined. When Manning tried to railroad Rowley, Vally supported him (Manning)now the shoe is on the other foot, so only now is Manning a Dictator?...This would never had been uttered if things were going Vallys way.
This is the type of Politicans we have representing us they are all about self, they will do anything, support today, jump ship tomorrow, once they have something to gain at the end of the day....and we as Nationals with our nine days syndrome will continue to fete while we live in cages we call homes,dare not venture outdoors any time after dark, know that when we call on the Police we will not get a timely response (if any at all), and if you are sick sell your cage to go to a private medical institution or die....After elections with the same people do you see any changes????????

vaio
10-09-2007, 11:14 AM
ken is ah fool... he on de screenin committee and kickin ppl out... now he get kick out... he say de screein committee aint fair... when he see Patos do dat to other ppl... it ok... now dat he get de boot... he sayin all kinda ting... ah mean de man maybe right.... Patos is ah dictator... but dat doh make Ken ah victim now... he has been part of the problem for the past 20sometin years an is now he realise how politics does work??!!

King B
10-09-2007, 11:39 AM
Ken on the road to oblivion.

sam48
10-09-2007, 12:30 PM
If Ken had testicular fortitude and the support in the costituency he believes he has he should contest as an independent with the promise to rejoin the PNM if he wins. That would then be an indirect contest between him and Manning. Lieberman in the US did this and is back in the foldsof the democrats. Manning is obviously doing some house cleaning of his detractors.

Falcon
10-09-2007, 12:57 PM
buh Light, all the time Valley is ah liar, and now yuh quoting he like gospel ?? Politics nice wid allyuh yuh hear!! :lol:

Somebody007
10-09-2007, 01:03 PM
One of the reasons why Valley got shaft of his position was due to some emerging scandal/corrupt acitivities of when he was Minister of Trade.....so Manning shaft him long before the mark buss and before he make the PNM look bad on the national/international front.

Maria
10-09-2007, 02:08 PM
Mr. Valley's diatribe is what is referred to as the ‘liars paradox’!

Unable to accept defeat graciously, Mr. Valley, after months of fighting to retain his candidacy, taking his case to the Central Executive of the PNM, and fighting until Nomination Day for his reinstatement, wants very badly to represent the same PNM, which is run by, as he warns us – a dictator.

Were Mr. Valley a man of strong moral character and believed the Prime Minister and Political Leader of the PNM to be a dictator – shouldn’t he have resigned a long time ago – on principle?

Unfortunately for Mr. Valley, most PNMites are hugely excited about the prospect of having intelligent, dynamic, young yet experienced candidates of the caliber of Dr. Brown, Esther Le Gendre, Donna Cox and Kennedy Swarathsingh introduced to their team.

Mr. Valley must understand that defeats and setbacks show up the quality of a man. Men of strong character know how to overcome and grow from the many adverse situations that present themselves in life. These are the times that make or break us.

Someone should tell Mr. Valley – "learn to accept defeat graciously and to show a magnanimous nature. Try to rise above the situation and do better with your life."

vaio
10-09-2007, 02:30 PM
Someone should tell Mr. Valley – "learn to accept defeat graciously and to show a magnanimous nature. Try to rise above the situation and do better with your life."


I will tell him - Honourable Minister - "learn to accept defeat graciously and to show a magnanimous nature. Try to rise above the situation and do better with your life." :lol: :lol:

TheLight
10-09-2007, 03:43 PM
buh Light, all the time Valley is ah liar, and now yuh quoting he like gospel ?? Politics nice wid allyuh yuh hear!! :lol:

Even liars speak the truth sometimes…

But it is not that I quoting Valley is Valley that quoting me
If you check the old forum you will find a thread title “the making of a dictator” I started that thread over a year ago and today Valley confirmed some of the fears I had.

Sirius
10-09-2007, 04:33 PM
I think you all are shooting the messenger before listening to the message. This isn't about what Valley did or didn't do as an MP, or his rationale for staying with the PNM. To be fair, it is possible he's sticking with the PNM because of the institution and not the leader. A leader can be ousted and the institution remain intact. We really don't know his motives.

What we DO know is the message he is giving. It is the very same message that many of us have been saying before. That Manning is taking us down the road to dictatorship. We knew this from Manning's behavior. Many people within the PNM following turn a blind eye to it because of party allegiance. Were Valley to keep his mouth shut, many PNM people would never consider the notion that their party may be taking a dictatorship route. But as a high ranking party member, if Valley says it is happening, some within the PNM following will stop and think about it, if only because they're hearing it from one of their own instead of a UNC or COP.

So really, why are we crying down Valley for taking his stance? His reasons are his and his alone...but it does not change the content of what he is saying. Frankly I don't want Valley as an MP, far less as a PNM MP. However, it never hurts to listen before passing judgement.

emmannn
10-09-2007, 04:58 PM
Am I the only one who saw that up to the eleventh hour they did not decide on a candidate to replace Mr. Valley? Who was the alternative presented when the executive sent the party groups to select another candidate? Why didn't the Executive choose Mr. Valley seeing that he had the support of the majority of the party groups and there were no alternatives as well as there were no objextions to his candidacy?

There is something wrong. The party groups do not seem to be in agreement with Mr.Browne and it seems that they have had this man thrust upon them for support. Who selected this man and why is Valley out? There are to many suspisions in the actions of this Executive when it comes to this candidacy. There is more in the mortar than the pestle, alot more! It should leave any right thinking voter very unsettled!

snowbird
10-09-2007, 10:06 PM
In Trinidad and Tobago Politics it seems that every thing a Party or Pilitical Leader does is OK untill it happens to you... This is the case with Ken and we see the same with Kamla. When Dooks was dumped by Panday, Kamla supported him (Panday) now she is on the recieving end and feels the hurt and betrayal of being sidelined. When Manning tried to railroad Rowley, Vally supported him (Manning)now the shoe is on the other foot, so only now is Manning a Dictator?...This would never had been uttered if things were going Vallys way.
This is the type of Politicans we have representing us they are all about self, they will do anything, support today, jump ship tomorrow, once they have something to gain at the end of the day....and we as Nationals with our nine days syndrome will continue to fete while we live in cages we call homes,dare not venture outdoors any time after dark, know that when we call on the Police we will not get a timely response (if any at all), and if you are sick sell your cage to go to a private medical institution or die....After elections with the same people do you see any changes????????

It is referred to as ....... what goes around, comes around; an ah hope ah live tuh see de day when Panday get his own.

On the Valley issue though, all I will say is..... " Don't shoot the messanger "

lou_uk
10-09-2007, 11:54 PM
I think you all are shooting the messenger before listening to the message. This isn't about what Valley did or didn't do as an MP, or his rationale for staying with the PNM. To be fair, it is possible he's sticking with the PNM because of the institution and not the leader. A leader can be ousted and the institution remain intact. We really don't know his motives.

What we DO know is the message he is giving. It is the very same message that many of us have been saying before. That Manning is taking us down the road to dictatorship. We knew this from Manning's behavior. Many people within the PNM following turn a blind eye to it because of party allegiance. Were Valley to keep his mouth shut, many PNM people would never consider the notion that their party may be taking a dictatorship route. But as a high ranking party member, if Valley says it is happening, some within the PNM following will stop and think about it, if only because they're hearing it from one of their own instead of a UNC or COP.

So really, why are we crying down Valley for taking his stance? His reasons are his and his alone...but it does not change the content of what he is saying. Frankly I don't want Valley as an MP, far less as a PNM MP. However, it never hurts to listen before passing judgement.

Nothing to do with the message, but the timing of it. When Ato left the UNC he had some pot shots at them. I stated back then that it was not good of him, in fact a person like that is better off out of your organisation. I feel the same way about Valley.

TheLight
10-22-2007, 07:39 AM
Valley warning allyuh again! Please listen….if ah d kno does be to late….do your duty…vote Manning out!

BY GAIL ALEXANDER

Outgoing People’s National Movement Diego Martin Central MP Kenneth Valley has dismissed Saturday night’s praises from PNM leader Patrick Manning and he has also asked to be left out PNM’s election campaign.

Valley, however, has continued to warn T&T to “do its duty” on election day.

“I have done my duty to the country as I saw it, and now you have to go out and do yours on election day…or repent thereafter,” Valley said yesterday. Valley was commenting yesterday after Manning spoke at a Diego Martin PNM meeting on Saturday night where he praised Valley.

He also said yesterday that he was standing by all the statements he made after he was rejected as the PNM’s candidate for Diego Martin Central.

Valley had then accused Manning of being on the road to having a “dictatorial” attitude. He had warned of a big issue facing citizens.

Valley had said that all the forces that are really interested in T&T should bind together to ensure “that what we see coming down the road does not happen (sic).”

Valley had said that while he supported the PNM to win the election, “we need to guard against a special majority that will allow for the executive presidency though the back door.”

He had said while he loved his party and was loyal to the PNM, he loved his country more.

Manning, at the PNM’s Diego Martin meeting, said the decision not to select Valley as the Diego Martin Central candidate was done without any malice and animosity. He said Valley was still a personal friend of his.

‘I am not Manning’s friend’

But yesterday, Valley said:

“Do not be taken in by platitudes. I am not Mr Manning’s friend. I never considered him a friend. We were work colleagues.”

To those who have accused him of “sour grapes” on the issue of losing the candidacy, Valley said:

“This is one of the instances that proves the tendencies to which I referred.

“Here the political leader could have been magnanimous and given the weight in favour of my running for the constituency, but he chose instead to use his veto power,” he said.

“To come and say now that PNM’s Central Executive made the decision is obfuscation.

“While he was touring Tobago before elections, the political leader said that the Central Executive did not reject recommendations made by the political leader on candidates. And especially when he is sitting right there silently watching them, how can they?

“I, on the last night of the issue, I addressed the Central Executive at Balisier House and I left after I did so. But he remained. So which of them is going to go against him?

“I am eager to put closure to this situation, but as long as they leave me out of their campaign.”
http://www.guardian.co.tt/news11.html

vaio
10-22-2007, 07:48 AM
steupsss :roll:

King B
10-22-2007, 12:13 PM
Valley is clearly determined to make himself look as big a fool as possible. So be it.

Maccogirl
10-22-2007, 12:23 PM
I don't know what Valley did but I am sure he is no bigger a thief than Rowely and Imbert his riding pardners, all I can tell Valley if those two were his friends he better look for some new friends because none of them stood up for him when Manning was giving him the shaft, with friends like that he don't need enemies :lol:

vaio
10-22-2007, 01:48 PM
and how you know they did not stand up for him? like allyuh know what goin on in the PNm did you all not hear Dr Rowley when he spoke in Princes Town several weeks ago... not that i am a PNM supporter but please ...oh gosh... :roll:

scrunter
10-22-2007, 03:46 PM
and how you know they did not stand up for him? like allyuh know what goin on in the PNm did you all not hear Dr Rowley when he spoke in Princes Town several weeks ago... not that i am a PNM supporter but please ...oh gosh... :roll:
ah also hear when he say he did not take any material from de hospital site and sent it over to his wife's development.....ah didn't believe him den and ah sure duh believe him now....

We should all take heed of the message ...remember manning never denied the existance of the document he said he would go through the proper channel.

vaio
10-22-2007, 03:50 PM
and how you know they did not stand up for him? like allyuh know what goin on in the PNm did you all not hear Dr Rowley when he spoke in Princes Town several weeks ago... not that i am a PNM supporter but please ...oh gosh... :roll:
ah also hear when he say he did not take any material from de hospital site and sent it over to his wife's development.....ah didn't believe him den and ah sure duh believe him now....

We should all take heed of the message ...remember manning never denied the existance of the document he said he would go through the proper channel.

well i agree with you on these here....

TheLight
10-23-2007, 05:18 PM
I am saying that if you perceive action that is dictatorial, and if you think that someone is hoping to be executive president, you have to ask if you want a constitutional dictator and you have to make that decision.

Manning has also been engaged in a long term battle with Trinidad and Tobago's Chief Justice, Sat Sharma. Under Manning's watch both the Leader of the Opposition and the Chief Justice have been charged with criminal offences which many see as a form of political persecution. The only other country in the Commonwealth to have done the same is Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Manning

allyuh take note!

sam48
10-23-2007, 06:03 PM
The message from Valley is not new to many observant and perceptive citizens and some on this forum.

my question to Valley is Would youhave made this expose' if the PNM
(read Manning) had given you the seat?
However his warning is still timely as voters cannot claim that they were taken unawares and should have been warned before they voted.
Whether the core PNM supporters care about this is another question,because just like the UNC supporters,but to a greater degree I think , they get blind and deaf when the election bell rings
Lennox Grant for one has raised the alarm several times in his column.

JPersad
10-23-2007, 06:08 PM
Here is a fact :
PNM and UNC supporter do not care about issues .
In the case of the PNM , all they care is that the party have a black leader .
In the case of the UNC , all they care about is that Panday is the leader .

But there are other voters who do care about issues.
One way or the other, they will make a difference on Election Day .

snowbird
10-27-2007, 07:27 PM
The message from Valley is not new to many observant and perceptive citizens and some on this forum.

my question to Valley is Would youhave made this expose' if the PNM
(read Manning) had given you the seat?
However his warning is still timely as voters cannot claim that they were taken unawares and should have been warned before they voted.
Whether the core PNM supporters care about this is another question,because just like the UNC supporters,but to a greater degree I think , they get blind and deaf when the election bell rings
Lennox Grant for one has raised the alarm several times in his column.


I for one as a foreigner and one with no vested interest in T&T save for the remaining relatives who still live there was certainly alarmed when I read excerpts of the revised version of the constitution that Sir Ellis Clark prepared for Mr. Manning. I even started a thread on the subject; but alas, the silence was deafening. No one (especially the Trinidad forumites) seem to think it was any big deal.

I further criticized the PM for making the statement that " Trinidadians are not sophisticated enough to understand the role of an Executive President". Seeing that Trinidadians are still treating this as a non- issue, or one that can be dealt with after the fact leads me to unfortunately agree with the PM's statement. He truly does know how naive and ill informed Trinidadians are, and how easily it would be to grab absolute power for life if he so chooses.