These Children Need a Slap!!!!

[Sumana]

Wat de ass going on in schools??


BY INDARJIT SEURAJ

In yet another act of school violence, blood was drawn in a stabbing incident involving students of the Mt Hope Junior Secondary School.

While the faculty remained mum on the incident, the victim’s father Joseph Prentice said he was baffled as to why the school had not reported the incident to the police.

Prentice’s daughter 15-year-old Joanna was stabbed by another student while waiting for a maxi taxi on the Eastern Main Road yesterday.

When Prentice spoke to the Guardian yesterday, he said Joanna was in a bloodied school blouse nursing wounds to her head and forehead.

The school’s vice principal Michael Hill refused to comment, saying he was still “gathering information” on the incident.

Joanna, who spoke in a telephone interview, said she was stabbed with a broken bottle when she questioned why her schoolmate had pushed her.

And even more disturbing, the Form Three student said, was the fact that a relative of her attacker told onlookers: “ Don’t part it, don’t part it.”

Joanna explained that she was leaving school around 1.45 pm when a girl pushed her along Gordon Street in Mt Hope.

When she questioned the girl’s motive she was hit with a big stone in her back, she said.

Joanna said the police then arrived to break up the fight and disperse the crowd.

And as she waited for a maxi minutes later, a schoolboy broke a bottle and handed it to the assailant who dealt the stab wounds.

According to Prentice, St Joseph police are expected to go to the school tomorrow to conduct enquiries.

Joanna was seeking medical attention at the nearby Eric Williams Medical Sciences Complex in Mt Hope up to late yesterday.

http://guardian.co.tt/news2.html

[Solachica]

They need more than a slap.
I think there cud be more to tht story. Maybe when the gurl bump into her she cussed the gurl out and things started.
There's more to this and if not and it happened as she said then people better be afraid to bump into anyone.

[Sumana]

buh u see the part that the relative telling people don't part it? that's madness!

[BW]

These chirren need peer counciling. From young. De problem with dem is dey eh know better; dat is de only reaction dey know.

De govarment ha to start programs that focus on changing de culture ah young people. Unfortunately, none ah dem party platform even saying a word about it. Mrs. Manning, fuh all people critize she, make real inroads into that. She start peer counciling. She is de fust to introduce guidance councilers (in theory, at least). Also, yuh cyar beat chirren now, and I feel dat setting ah good example.

Look just de other day I see a commercial on de TV (Gayelle) whey it had some standard three chirren in ah kinda re-enactment thing. One ah dem playing football, and he make ah mistake and hit ah "older bully". All he frien run away as if big fight goh buss out. But, instead, de child say "sorry", and de fight never start. Instead, de bigger child teach de next one how to kick ah football straight. I feel dem play things when dey teaching chrren conflict management is de way forward. We need more ah dat, from young.

Buh whey we should do about this gyul in particular who stabbing people? Personally, I doh think they should punish she. De problem bigger than she, and it doh really do much to make she change she ways.

Ah say, instead, we should have ah press conference, when she have to explain, in front ah all she peers, why she do that. And, anyone remember de group of ex-convicts who change they ways? They does go around from school to school giving inspirational messages to young people. Bring dem in, and have she talk with dem. What we need, more dan ever, is to bring dis kinda thing out from de shadows. Is real, and is a big problem for dem non-prestige schools.

Though, ah have to admit, Ah does laugh when ah see articles like this. It getting ridiculous now. “ Don’t part it, don’t part it.” :lol:

[Double Trouble]

Don't tell me, let me make ah wild guess. This is just black children being normal. It doesn't matter, boy or girl, violence is just second nature to them. Ah does only shake my head in disgust. It was just on Sunday I was discussing the classmate of my son, who was murdered on the tenth anniversary of his murdering another black teenager, in full view of everyone at a subway station. This was all because of a diss.

[Scorpio]

You hafta to either be brave or damn stupid to slap one of these "children" - next thing they pull a gun for yuh arse. :evil:

[serenity]

Interesting post breadwinner. I disagree with the suggestion that the attacker not be punished since 'the problem greater than her'. I think this situation that also offers the opportunity to send the message that this type of behaviour will not be tolerated. Police should get involved. It is a serious offense. Suppose the girl had a disease that made her especially susceptible to cuts and bruises and she had died from her wounds?

Of course this course of action by the authorities should be in tandem with mediation and anger management training which I believe should be mandatory at some level in schools. Its true to a large extent that some of these kids dont know how to deal with situations without brutal confrontations, so its important to show them alternatives.

[sheppy]

When i read the title of this thread..i thought...all children need a slap...at least now and then...
but These children need jail...or scared straight or boot camp or something... a slap wouldn't last in their little brains long enough...

btw
When she questioned the girl’s motive she was hit with a big stone in her back, she said. that kinda made me chuckle...
thought that was a trini slang...

anyway...i dunno where people have to send their children to school nuh...children gettin stabbed with broken bottles?
just heard about some school where a gang walked in with cutlass a wood and beat an chop children...(s'where in south i tink)

home schoolin yes...

[lifehater]

YUH KNOW WHO NEEDS TO BE SLAPPED...........MY FORM 3s!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A LOT OF TEACHERS REALLY WORK IN HIGH RISK ENVIRONMENTS!

[serenity]

Some of the responses to the thread, even the title to the thread highlight our apparent inability to deal with conflict situations without resorting to violence. And this is from ppl who seemingly know better than these kids. Mediationa and conflict management training can work wonders..

[Double Trouble]

Some of the responses to the thread, even the title to the thread highlight our apparent inability to deal with conflict situations without resorting to violence. And this is from ppl who seemingly know better than these kids. Mediationa and conflict management training can work wonders..

serenity,

Tell that to the loveones of the victims of violence!

That same classmate of my son, who was murdered in retalliation for a murder he himself committed 10 years ago, was given many chances to turn his life around. I remember getting a call from the Principal to visit the primary school, because of an issue between this kid and my son during recess. This young violent punk had put the boots to my son's head, just because they got into a little shoving match while playing soccer during recess. This kid was taller and heavier than my boy but that didn't prevent him from using my son's heas as a soccer ball. The Principal begged us not to lay charges and we complied, figuring the kid deserves a second chance. A year later, the police were looking for him for the murder of a 15yr old he salughtered with a knife, in plain view of hundreds of onlookers. It seems that someon had told him that the 15yr old had said something about him. That 15yr old dead kid could have been my son.

[serenity]

But DT, what was done with your son's attacker after the incident? Was he sent for counseling? Was he trained in conflict management? Probably not. He probably was lectured to by the principal and that was that. How does that help him deal with situations differently?

I'm not saying these things bec it sounds good. I have seen the difference this training makes in changing the mindset of some of the 'trouble students' who, for the first time, are recognised as having a problem and actually taught how to deal with it. If u grow up with verbal abuse and licks from an abusive parent, its unlikely that u'll practice something different when u get to school.

Like I said, this type of behaviour should not be tolerated and charges should be brought against the offending students when the situation is serious. But there should also be training to avoid the situation in the first place. The training teaches life skills which are so badly needed among ALL our kids.

[Double Trouble]

But DT, what was done with your son's attacker after the incident? Was he sent for counseling? Was he trained in conflict management? Probably not. He probably was lectured to by the principal and that was that. How does that help him deal with situations differently?

I'm not saying these things bec it sounds good. I have seen the difference this training makes in changing the mindset of some of the 'trouble students' who, for the first time, are recognised as having a problem and actually taught how to deal with it. If u grow up with verbal abuse and licks from an abusive parent, its unlikely that u'll practice something different when u get to school.

Like I said, this type of behaviour should not be tolerated and charges should be brought against the offending students when the situation is serious. But there should also be training to avoid the situation in the first place. The training teaches life skills which are so badly needed among ALL our kids.

serenity,

I live in Toronto, a city where they bend backwards to help kids in need. This kid was just a badarse who eventually met someone badder than himself.

[serenity]

Ok, thats him. But what about the rest of them? Perhaps earlier intervention is nec. I cant speak to what happens abroad. I only know a little of what happens in Tdad.

[lifehater]

Some of the responses to the thread, even the title to the thread highlight our apparent inability to deal with conflict situations without resorting to violence. And this is from ppl who seemingly know better than these kids. Mediationa and conflict management training can work wonders..

ammmm........yeah......... :roll:

[Sumana]

What so wrong with the title of the thread? I''m 20 - I've never even given a lil bit close to that amount of trouble with my parents - never got in trouble in school or otherwise, so why the ass other kids can't behave so? A few slaps cud never hurt

Watch:http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5jlrxcpkI

[raider]

sumana,

would you slap them?

[Sumana]

sumana,

would you slap them?

Me? I'd stay far away from them!

[snowbird]

buh u see the part that the relative telling people don't part it? that's madness!

Interesting title.... violence begets violence.

In this case I'm not sure who to feel sorry for, the victim, the perpetrator, or the ignorant parent.
It is obvious these people are just acting out the results of living in a violent society. The parent probably comes from a circle of abuse and ignorance, where that type of action is so common place, she thinks it is acceptable.

As long as we continue to condone corporal punishment (by school and home) you are teaching children that the way to resolve an issue is with violence; and by the way, corporal punishment inflicted on a child, is a form of bullying. (the adult is bigger than the child).

It is as ironic as a scene where a mother slaps her child and says.... " I told you it is not nice to hit your sister".

[Double Trouble]

buh u see the part that the relative telling people don't part it? that's madness!

Interesting title.... violence begets violence.

In this case I'm not sure who to feel sorry for, the victim, the perpetrator, or the ignorant parent.
It is obvious these people are just acting out the results of living in a violent society. The parent probably comes from a circle of abuse and ignorance, where that type of action is so common place, she thinks it is acceptable.

As long as we continue to condone corporal punishment (by school and home) you are teaching children that the way to resolve an issue is with violence; and by the way, corporal punishment inflicted on a child, is a form of bullying. (the adult is bigger than the child).

It is as ironic as a scene where a mother slaps her child and says.... " I told you it is not nice to hit your sister".

It's ironic how we are always making excuses for the the violence and bad behaviour in general, from the bad apples of this particular group. Let's face facts people, we are dealing with a bunch of bullies.

[BW]

It's ironic how we are always making excuses for the the violence and bad behaviour in general, from the bad apples of this particular group. Let's face facts people, we are dealing with a bunch of bullies.

Don't confuse explaining for excusing. No free passes here: none for the child, and none for the society that raised the child.

[serenity]

What so wrong with the title of the thread? I''m 20 - I've never even given a lil bit close to that amount of trouble with my parents - never got in trouble in school or otherwise, so why the ass other kids can't behave so? A few slaps cud never hurt

Watch:http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5jlrxcpkI


Firstly Sumana, I wasnt attacking you or the title to your thread. I was merely making a general point by using the title to the thread.
As for your question about why other kids cant behave like u is bec they havent been raised like u...unless you're beaten almost daily and verbally abused by ppl who supposed to love and care for u.
I'm not saying all of the trouble kids live like that either but plenty do and clearly the rest have issues which need to be addressed.
Its not matter of condoning or excusing. Like I keep repaeting in my posts, punish the child for deviant bbehaviour yes, but also teach them the right way to respond to conflict.

[KFCSpicy]

Sigh!

When a parent slaps a child that is not abuse or violence...you all need no to start separating these two extremes then call a spade a spade. If I as a parent don't break or maim or harm my child in any way, why then can't I be allowed to beat the living daylights out of that child without being told it is violent?

Secondly, whether the girl cuss way the bully for bouncing her is no rational excuse for stabbing or stoning, somebody needs to teach she a lil bit of restraint and give her some lessons on how to acquire some self discipline. Just because they were with an audience the bully wanted to gallery and verandah she self but did not think about her actions or the outcome of those actions. what if the girl had died as a result? The boy who broke the bottle isn't he culpable here too?

Sheppy is right, scare them straight, cause is in Trinidad jails where the situations are so distressing that no normal human would want to spend time. Maybe if they see the due process at work and spend a weekend in a jail surrounded by real criminals then this may deter them in acting before thinking.

We will always have petty fights, but when a young person starts on the road of serious drama by using a weapon then they need to be deterred pronto. If this means slapping them silly then by all means do so as the parent of that child. Licks doh always solve problems but for some kids it's a great deterrent. Yuh won't know until yuh try. As for councilling and all that, fair enuff but your rat fink animal is not supposed to be my nemesis at my place of study or work. Parents are supposed to try and control their mini beasts or stop making them and letting them run riot on other people. All yuh lucky I not in charge I would have arrested the parents, the children involved, and then demanded that the parents be castrated from making any more animals.

Sorry but that is the extreme psycho way to deal with things. :)

[bluenote492000]

I hate the "there are two sides to every story" cliche. If you were called at work and someone tell you someone stab your child with a broken bottle I'm sure the last thing you're thinking is "Well, honey, there are two sides to every story.". I'm sorry that who cliche is a total cop-out when you don't want to take responsibilty for your actions. She didn't know better? Please, people with ranting and raving a couple of months ago that Danah Allen should have known better than wining on stage. I think stabbing with a broken bottle trumps that.

[scrunter]

Some of the responses to the thread, even the title to the thread highlight our apparent inability to deal with conflict situations without resorting to violence. And this is from ppl who seemingly know better than these kids. Mediationa and conflict management training can work wonders..


If it was your child would you go for that or would you want proper justice....ah guess Dianna Wyatt Mahabir would be proud since she was instrumental in doing away with any sort of physical punishment (corporal) in schools...so now when dem criminals harassed de rest of de school population and de administration hands are tied den ah suggest dat dey call dianna to council dem innocent young children.

[serenity]

Some of the responses to the thread, even the title to the thread highlight our apparent inability to deal with conflict situations without resorting to violence. And this is from ppl who seemingly know better than these kids. Mediationa and conflict management training can work wonders..


If it was your child would you go for that or would you want proper justice....ah guess Dianna Wyatt Mahabir would be proud since she was instrumental in doing away with any sort of physical punishment (corporal) in schools...so now when dem criminals harassed de rest of de school population and de administration hands are tied den ah suggest dat dey call dianna to council dem innocent young children.
I'm hardly suggesting turning a blind eye or leaving this type of behaviour to go unpunished. If it were my child, I would make a report at the police station and pursue the matter from a legal angle. Take the boy thru the system. We may even end up with court sanctioned counseling. I would approach the Principal about a trip to the jail for the students. Have someone come in and speak to the kids about their experience in jail. When I was in school we had one such session. At the end of it, I was nauseated and sickened and 99.9% sure, there was no way in hell I reaching there. Organise fundraisers in order to pay professionals to come in and train students, especially the trouble makers, in mediation and anger management. That way, I would have gotten justice for my child and done my part to ensure there's less chance of it happenning again.
But other parents dont have the luxury of time or other resources to go that far. Thats why its up to the teachers and principals and relevant authorities to take the initiative. Condemn the actions, not the child, bec its still a child.

[scrunter]

Some of the responses to the thread, even the title to the thread highlight our apparent inability to deal with conflict situations without resorting to violence. And this is from ppl who seemingly know better than these kids. Mediationa and conflict management training can work wonders..


If it was your child would you go for that or would you want proper justice....ah guess Dianna Wyatt Mahabir would be proud since she was instrumental in doing away with any sort of physical punishment (corporal) in schools...so now when dem criminals harassed de rest of de school population and de administration hands are tied den ah suggest dat dey call dianna to council dem innocent young children.
I'm hardly suggesting turning a blind eye or leaving this type of behaviour to go unpunished. If it were my child, I would make a report at the police station and pursue the matter from a legal angle. Take the boy thru the system. We may even end up with court sanctioned counseling. I would approach the Principal about a trip to the jail for the students. Have someone come in and speak to the kids about their experience in jail. When I was in school we had one such session. At the end of it, I was nauseated and sickened and 99.9% sure, there was no way in hell I reaching there. Organise fundraisers in order to pay professionals to come in and train students, especially the trouble makers, in mediation and anger management. That way, I would have gotten justice for my child and done my part to ensure there's less chance of it happenning again.
But other parents dont have the luxury of time or other resources to go that far. Thats why its up to the teachers and principals and relevant authorities to take the initiative. Condemn the actions, not the child, bec its still a child.


Been there done that .........The children got a personal tour of the ST.Joseph police station....members of the police force came in on more than one occasion to talk to them....councelling by professionals was organiged by the PTA for the children .....de drama group arts in action (or something like dat) came and conducted some sessions with de children...drama classes are being conducted not by the class teachers anymore but by a professional....yuh think it help? Who yuh think continue to carry out the action ....dat is why I believe in the saying ...SPARE THE ROD AND SPOIL THE CHILD.

[KFCSpicy]

clap clap clap clap. Let them useless mini-beasts and them lay blame elsewhere now cause they sure as hell eh appreciating the efforts others wasting on them.

So I want to see if Missy going and offer all that she claim she will offer but then again she eh go do that cause she eh have a child. Apparently yuh have to be a mother first before yuh care about other kids and their future well being. Rubbbbbbbbbish!

Is a good thing I never did like them smelly, powder necked maxi-taxi man loving duncee sets. Cud be I need to get some maternal instincts? Lol lol!

[serenity]

clap clap clap clap. Let them useless mini-beasts and them lay blame elsewhere now cause they sure as hell eh appreciating the efforts others wasting on them.

So I want to see if Missy going and offer all that she claim she will offer but then again she eh go do that cause she eh have a child. Apparently yuh have to be a mother first before yuh care about other kids and their future well being. Rubbbbbbbbbish!

Is a good thing I never did like them smelly, powder necked maxi-taxi man loving duncee sets. Cud be I need to get some maternal instincts? Lol lol!

KFC Spicy, U dont know me, so please dont speculate on what I would do or have done.
I have had mediation training and have participated in training govt ministries and family court mediators. I know of proposals that have been sent to the Ministry of Education to have training done in schools. They have been sidelined. Apparently, the Ministry prefer to spend millions on beefed up security rather than also addressing the root cause of the deviant behaviour. I have seen firsthand how mediation training and a little caring can change a trouble child's mindset, how they can recognise and embrace a different method of conflict resolution.

Useless mini beasts?! Its ironic. This is the type of attitude that helps mold kids into the criminals of tomorrow. Why care about them right? They're just ghetto bastards of teenage mothers. But trust me, when they grow up and decide if the world doh care bout them then dey dont care bout the world and hold a gun to your head to relieve of your cash and jewellry, u might give them a thought then.

[serenity]

Scrunter, I'm not suggesting that the children be spared!!!
I said that for serious offences, they should feel the brunt of the law. Let that be the rod. Let them understand that this is not a joking matter.
U think beating these kids will make them straighten up? U dont think that they probably getting licks home every other night anyway and are immune?
I'm not saying its either one method or another. Why not use all the methods? Any method that will work in a given situation?

[scrunter]

Serenity....It is not that I am totally in disagreement with what you are saying is just that we have tried all what you have said and maybe more but there are some children who are habitual offenders and maybe if they are punished differently(rod) they may conform.Here I am not talking about the ones who are from underprivelege famalies...I am talking about the doctors and Lawyers' and accountants' children who are told if the teacher touch alyuh ah go send dem a solicitor letter or we go take dem to court...these are the ones who start the breakdown and of course the others emulate them.

[serenity]

Ohhhhhh...well it seems we were talking apples and oranges.
I thought u were talking deprived kids....
Still dont see how slapping them will make a difference. Perhaps in that scenario the change required is at a parenting level?

[KFCSpicy]

yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwn... as i have mentioned on numerous posts throughout the old forum....I work for social services in the local government in Children's Division, I taught in an SEN school and I worked at LAventille boy's government primary years ago. So Chica chill with the display of so called trained work ethics.

De parents could be as good as gold, the kids could be misled by whomever or whatever they heard/read/watched...the fact still remains yuh tail with all de training eh doing jack ****e about nothing. Worse yet yuh so trained and EDUMACATED to such high standards too...wow! Well as someone who eh in yuh league dread I stil say yuh talking de talk but yuh eh walking de walk yuh bragging and displaying bout.

Go to de schools and propose these measures. Write to the ministry or Ministers. Do some kind ah campaigning if yuh so passionate about their future and stop blaming we attitudes for their malaise. Cause at the end of the day yuh eh no different from the rest of we who does turn a blind eye. Also, we were all born with choices, good or bad we all chose the road we went down eventually in life....and spare meh any rhethoric about age cause as young as the kids are in this particular story they had choices to not pelt a big stone, not stab with a broken bottle and not take that said broken bottle from dodgy geezer handing it out. I 99% sure none of them parents teach them to stab, act irrationally and to pelt stone to solve a problem...and if they did well it just goes right back to what I said...is them rearing the mini animals to let them loose onto an unsuspecting nation and then all yuh so does want to lay blame on people who tired and fearful and just plain fed up with these animals?

Give them a chance to make good we but also they must learn that every action has consequences good or bad or we eh teaching them the tools to become and adapt as adults. They getting way wid murder now what about when the little losers turn old enuff?

Get over yuhself dearie it ain't that serious on here and try tone down yuh self importance lil bit...it glaring on meh computer.

Humble yuhself and discuss not pontificate and jump up and down on yuh soap box. Yuh does raise some valid points but at times I does wonder what joy juice yuh does be drinking.

;)

[serenity]

I'm really sorry that u feel that I've been trying to impose my standards or views on u. I can assure u its not my intent so there's no need to be defensive about everything I post. If u think about it, very little, if anything I say is original in the sense that it has already been discussed and addressed by persons far more qualified than myself. I am sure there have been hundreds of studies done on this issue. It seems that we are passionate about our respective views and so can simply agree to disagree.

[KFCSpicy]

Ah sensing a trend here... we are not on here with the millions of people with your views we are here with u....discussing the whys and why nots of what we (or me) think is wrong with your point of view in this case. This is not a competition but a discussion (ah repeating mehself here ah sure) so it's not about taking things personally it's about speaking yuh mind and being interpreted to sound every which way by everyone on here. That is the downside of an online discussion. No voice inflection to give meaning just assumed tones.

I am so not taking this personally, but I always say what I have to and move on from there. I never asked and expected to have anyone agree with anything I ever say be it serious or comedic, I eh dat needy or lacking self confidence. We all learn from each other. You say things on here and I think wow, intelligent woman, but that don't mean I would always agree with you or for that matter am picking on you. It's just that because of your need to say yuh mind on most topics you have to accept that you are wide open to responses likeable and disliked by moi and by the rest of the forumites.

I doh kiss bumcee me eh like de taste and I was never a follower on certain things always march to my own drum. So I will forever and ever to de annoyance of most speak my mind. ;)

[kemist]

pheww, thank de lord all my students are adults. I dunno what i would do if i had to teach teens.
I think 'licks' was an effective deterant (cant spell lol) in my school days. Of course we always heard of some teacher or parent who abused a kid now and then. The abolishment of corporal punishment, though some may think its not humane to inflict pain on a child, has its downfalls.

We have to face the facts that nowadays, parents only have a small role to play in influencing the character of their kids. Kids are more influenced by their schoolmates and the entertainment media. In some school evironments, teachers still have influence on their students.
We have to remember that the human brain is not fully developed for critical thinking until about age 21-ish.
It appears that in the past decade, most of them haven't learned the lesson about consequences for their actions. Whatever system replaced corporal punishment seems to have failed some schoolkids. I'm not saying that corporal punishment is ideal, I'm just saying that mere counseling alone is simply not effective.

Whatever the means of character-building, it should include parents, teachers, communities and the government working together, because of that old saying "it takes a village to raise a child."