PhD in Carnival

[Falcon]

Not really ah PhD in Carnival, that was just to get you clicking the thread.

Anyhow, since yuh here, a man get the second PhD from UTT. Now, let's leave discussing the merits and robustness of telling anyone you have a PhD, but it from UTT. That is another discussion for another day.

But the man is claimed to have said in his thesis:


Size of study
A total of eight rituals, observances and festivals were chosen: four festive; three ritualistic and one ritualistic commemorative. These fell into three religious categories in current practise; Hinduism, Islam and Christianity. The Hindu rituals and festivals were—Ramlila, Divali, Shivaratri and Phagwa/Holi. The Christian festivals were Christmas and Carnival and the Islamic ritual was Muharram or Hosay. The all encompassing-Flag or Jhandi, both ritual and festive, was also examined, Balkaransingh noted. Guardian 20.11.11

My question is, is Carnival a Christian festival?

I was taken aback at this affront.

[Solachica]

Uwi have Carnival studies degree I think.

[vaio]

so what, no link? :s:

[Falcon]

Link for what? Some thread idea in me head?

[amzz]

i wonder if d study noted that hoosay is not considered islamic by the majority of muslims in tnt...

[Falcon]

ever more reason to question the validity of their degrees!!

[guyguy]

i wonder if d study noted that hoosay is not considered islamic by the majority of muslims in tnt...Why not amzz? I remember spending time at my relatives in St. James for Hoosay and clearly, it was a muslim festival. I even used to help building the tadjas. Maybe there are no more Shiite Muslims in Trinidad anymore.

[snowbird]

To answer you question Falcon... is Carnival a Christian festival?

Absolutely not..... in Trinidad and Tobago (and some other parts of the world) .... Carnival is a Pre-Lenten 'ritual'....the church never prescribed how the pre-lenten season is to be celebrated / observed.... the Christian Church only directive is on the actual period of 'Lent'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Lenten_Season




On an aside.... one of my children who has a degree in Cultural Studies ...once asked me to tape a TV program which was being aird on.... 'The History of Caribana' as one of the professors was being interviewed

in the interview.... one of the things which this professor explained to ther host was certainly news to me..... she explained that:

"This whole exercise called 'wining' displayed by the revelers in the Trinidad and Tobago Carnival.... dates back to the days of 'slavery' .....this a 'mating / fertility ritual exercised by the slaves". rofl

Well all I could tell my daughter was ..... that was one part of Trini's carnival history I missed lol ...and here all along I am thinking that those people wining dong de place were just plain 'wotless' lol ..... not realizing they were simply re-inacting history rofl

[letric]

To answer you question Falcon... is Carnival a Christian festival?

Absolutely not..... in Trinidad and Tobago (and some other parts of the world) .... Carnival is a Pre-Lenten 'ritual'....the church never prescribed how the pre-lenten season is to be celebrated / observed.... the Christian Church only directive is on the actual period of 'Lent'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Lenten_Season




On an aside.... one of my children who has a degree in Cultural Studies ...once asked me to tape a TV program which was being aird on.... 'The History of Caribana' as one of the professors was being interviewed

in the interview.... one of the things which this professor explained to ther host was certainly news to me..... she explained that:

"This whole exercise called 'wining' displayed by the revelers in the Trinidad and Tobago Carnival.... dates back to the days of 'slavery' .....this a 'mating / fertility ritual exercised by the slaves". rofl

Well all I could tell my daughter was ..... that was one part of Trini's carnival history I missed lol ...and here all along I am thinking that those people wining dong de place were just plain 'wotless' lol ..... not realizing they were simply re-inacting history rofl

Live and learn :cool:

[Falcon]

Thanks for that explanation Snow, I thought I was going mad thinking Carnival was NOT a Christian festival when people getting higher degrees from making them assumptions.

Buh like yuh din get the memo Snow, yuh s'pose to be vex like crab wid Falcon to justify Poser PMS this evening lol

[Poser]

Thanks for that explanation Snow, I thought I was going mad thinking Carnival was NOT a Christian festival when people getting higher degrees from making them assumptions.

Buh like yuh din get the memo Snow, yuh s'pose to be vex like crab wid Falcon to justify Poser PMS this evening lol

You have an inherent ability to read members wrong .. to justify your madness .. or to camouflage .. your insecurities …

[Falcon]

Checkmate on this one breds; go back to the 70-30 and fite up dey lol

[amzz]

gg, it shows how much u know bout islam and muslims in tnt :)

[guyguy]

gg, it shows how much u know bout islam and muslims in tnt :)Then educate me nah. I didn't profess to be an expert on Islam or any religion for that matter. I stated what I used to do when I was a young boy.

[amzz]

gg, u dont need me to educate u, there ae many other more qualified sources available. One right on this forum.. go to him. :)

[guyguy]

gg, u dont need me to educate u, there ae many other more qualified sources available. One right on this forum.. go to him. :)Who's that? And, ent you iz ah teacher, or supposed to be one? Wat kinda teacher you iz when you doh even want to teach me? lol

[letric]

Who's that? And, ent you iz ah teacher, or supposed to be one? Wat kinda teacher you iz when you doh even want to teach me? lol

Perhaps, because you are an unwilling student... :dancingcat:

[guyguy]

Perhaps, because you are an unwilling student... :dancingcat:Au contraire, mon ami. I am always willing to learn, even if the information may be inaccurate, at least I will have learnt something.

[snowbird]

Thanks for that explanation Snow, I thought I was going mad thinking Carnival was NOT a Christian festival when people getting higher degrees from making them assumptions.

Buh like yuh din get the memo Snow, yuh s'pose to be vex like crab wid Falcon to justify Poser PMS this evening lol

Aye... what part ah 'leggo' yuh doh understand?

Look doh leh meh hav tuh come over by your side ah geh yuh to clout.



Anyhoo..... I also heard that the UWI runs a symposium around Carnival time on the topic (for people visiting the island who may want to take it in)....maybe I should get my daughter to come down.... take part in one.... and 'debunk' all them 'theories' rofl

[amzz]

gg, why do i feel that tryin to teach u would be useless :p

[guyguy]

gg, why do i feel that tryin to teach u would be useless :pSo yuh tink meh head hard o' wot? lol

[trini123]

I see you can get a masters in Carnival. That is the craziest thing I saw today.


http://u.tt/index.php?utt_programmes=1&home=1 (http://u.tt/index.php?utt_programmes=1&home=1)

[snowbird]

I see you can get a masters in Carnival. That is the craziest thing I saw today.


http://u.tt/index.php?utt_programmes=1&home=1 (http://u.tt/index.php?utt_programmes=1&home=1)

Why not? you can get a masters in most other 'liberal arts' subjects... so why not carnival. When you consider the history of 'carnival' and not just Trini carnival.... I would imagine it could be quite a wide and interesting subject.

[bigzack]

My question is, is Carnival a Christian festival?

I was taken aback at this affront.

The word Carnival comes from two latin words:

Carne -- Meat
Vale -- Goodbye.

When put together it means -- "Goodbye to meat".

It heralded a period when christians gave up meat as a way to purify their bodies of all duttyness.

In Trinidad, the church forced us to give up calypso for 39 of the 40 days in lent.

The days of carnival are set by the Catholic Church.

[amzz]

BZ, where u got ur info on the church setting the dates for carnival?
as far as my understanding goes (and I may be very wrong) Ash Wed. is dependent upon Easter..

if d church sets d date for carnival how come it isnt observed internationally?

[snowbird]

The word Carnival comes from two latin words:

Carne -- Meat
Vale -- Goodbye.

When put together it means -- "Goodbye to meat".

It heralded a period when christians gave up meat as a way to purify their bodies of all duttyness.

In Trinidad, the church forced us to give up calypso for 39 of the 40 days in lent.

The days of carnival are set by the Catholic Church.

Aye Zackster.... while the word carnival does mean 'goodbye to meat' ....there is no church prescribed 'celebration or festival' for any of the days leading up to 'Ash Wednesday' which is actually the day that we stop eating meat

.... Also, the days of Carnival are not set .....'by the Catholic Church'.... rather it is arrived by determining when Ash Wednesday is based on the Gregorian calendar which all Christian churches follow ..... except for the Orthodox Christians who go by the Julian calender ... for all of us though... Our church year begins on Easter Sunday .... which means Ash Wednesday (the day that is mandated that we stop eating meat) would be ... the 40 days prior.... there is no stipulation as to what we do on the days prior to the 40 days.

[Poser]

BZ, where u got ur info on the church setting the dates for carnival?
as far as my understanding goes (and I may be very wrong) Ash Wed. is dependent upon Easter..

if d church sets d date for carnival how come it isnt observed internationally?


Ash Wednesday is the same in all parts of the world .. in Western Christianity ... Ash Wednesday marks the start of the season of Lent ...which begins 40 days prior to Easter .. Carnival is the Monday and Tuesday preceding Ash Wednesday ...the celebrtaion goes by different names in other countries.. Mardi Gras and Shrove Tuesday comes to mind.. .. the reason it is celebrated in summer months.. in some places ... is solely because of the weather ..

leave the rest for Zack to explain ..

[amzz]

Aye Zackster.... while the word carnival does mean 'goodbye to meat' ....there is no church prescribed 'celebration or festival' for any of the days leading up to 'Ash Wednesday' which is actually the day that we stop eating meat

.... Also, the days of Carnival are not set .....'by the Catholic Church'.... rather it is arrived by determining when Ash Wednesday is based on the Gregorian calendar which all Christian churches follow ..... except for the Orthodox Christians who go by the Julian calender ... for all of us though... Our church year begins on Easter Sunday .... which means Ash Wednesday (the day that is mandated that we stop eating meat) would be ... the 40 days prior.... there is no stipulation as to what we do on the days prior to the 40 days.




I want to answer this but i might mention dotish and teacher in the same sentence so i will leave it for Zack .. ...

Ash Wednesday is the same in all parts of the world .. in Western Christianity ... Ash Wednesday marks the start of the season of Lent ...which begins 40 days prior to Easter .. Carnival is the Monday and Tuesday preceding Ash Wednesday ...the celebrtaion goes by different names in other countries.. Mardi Gras and Shrove Tuesday comes to mind.. .. the reason it is celebrated in summer months.. in some places ... is solely because of the weather ..

leave the rest for Zack to explain ..

hmm, interesting

[snowbird]

Ash Wednesday is the same in all parts of the world .. in Western Christianity ... Ash Wednesday marks the start of the season of Lent ...which begins 40 days prior to Easter .. Carnival is the Monday and Tuesday preceding Ash Wednesday ...the celebrtaion goes by different names in other countries.. Mardi Gras and Shrove Tuesday comes to mind.. .. the reason it is celebrated in summer months.. in some places ... is solely because of the weather ..

leave the rest for Zack to explain ..

Poser, BZ.... let's not confuse Carnival with the Pre-Lenten Season which can start as early as January 18th in the Western Churches... (and also observed in the Eastern churches).... from a 'church' perspective... this Pre-Lenten Season should really be spent not as a time of celebration.... but rather one of 'preparation' for Lent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Lenten_Season

Carnival as we know it is strictly a 'cultural celebration' and can be done at any time of the year.

[bigzack]

BZ, where u got ur info on the church setting the dates for carnival?
as far as my understanding goes (and I may be very wrong) Ash Wed. is dependent upon Easter..

if d church sets d date for carnival how come it isnt observed internationally?

The church tells us when Ash Wednesday is, and we set the two days of carnival celebrations just before those two days. So, in reality, the Church sets the dates for carnival.

As ah little fella going St. Martin's Church, I used to look at the back of my prayer book, see when Ash Wednesday was for the future years, then about two or three days after carnival, bet people that carnival go be so and so dates next year.

Big chupid men used tuh ask mih who I know in de government.

[bigzack]

Carnival as we know it is strictly a 'cultural celebration' and can be done at any time of the year.

Of course Snow.

We had carnival in May one year.

It is not a rule, it is just a tradition.

[Falcon]

The church tells us when Ash Wednesday is, and we set the two days of carnival celebrations just before those two days. So, in reality, the Church sets the dates for carnival
that is really some piece of convoluted deduction there zacka.

[amzz]

everybodee's reality is diff. :)

[bigzack]

that is really some piece of convoluted deduction there zacka.


In the year 2013, Ash Wednesday is February 13 and Easter Sunday is March 31.
In the year 2014, Ash Wednesday is March 5 and Easter Sunday is April 20.
In the year 2015, Ash Wednesday is February 18 and Easter Sunday is April 5.
In the year 2016, Ash Wednesday is February 10 and Easter Sunday is March 27.
In the year 2017, Ash Wednesday is March 1 and Easter Sunday is April 16.

Guess when Carnival will be for those years?

Or try and become Chairman of the National Carnival Commission, and join up with Gypsy, to set any other dates besides the two days preceding Ash Wednesday.

[Falcon]

Guess when Carnival will be for those years?

Or try and become Chairman of the National Carnival Commission, and join up with Gypsy, to set any other dates besides the two days preceding Ash Wednesday.

Oho, so is the Chairman of the NCC whey does set the Canaval den, ok.
I did tort, you did said, it was the Church that set it.


God make day, and when tief come in the night, is God who send the tief?

[shield_2006]

Carnival now or back then?

[snowbird]

that is really some piece of convoluted deduction there zacka.

.....and here is another.....

dong by me..... Carnival does be on the Saturday before the 'Civic Holiday' (first Monday in August).

....guess dat mean.... de 'goberment' does set we date fer Carnival...... lol

wait till Dr. PhD hear dis one....rofl

[Wayne]

snowbird make fass and tell Doc PhD.....nuh?lol

[Mr Majik]

Snow...the City of Toronto (aka: government) does, in fact, set the date for Toronto Carnival.
Granted, that is a relatively new development which is based on the traditional dating system.

It's a minor thing, but it went from the Caribana people having to get permission and permits for the date, to the City exercising it's prerogative in choosing the date.

[snowbird]

Majik in the case of 'Toronto Carnival'....it's really hard to say what came first.... 'the chicken or the egg'.

There are so many other peramaters that go into the 'staging' of that carnival that it is hard to say that any one group or person can simply pick a date....but generally the government are the ones that co-ordinate the dates to make sure that all of the other pieces fall into place
....i.e. it is also a long weekend for the US, so that the hotels are guaranteed the minimum of a four day stay; that there are no other festivals of that magnatude on, and oh yes, 'clean up time' lol

I would think that changing it from the original format would result in damaging the festival, and I can only see it being changed for say something like 'the Summer Olympics' or an event of that size.

[straphanger]

zacky boy i understand what u trying to say....the dates for all the different carnivals (trini carnival and mardi gras) are dependent on the dates set by the Church for easter, hence the church directly influences when carnival falls. :)

so i have a question- how do they come up with the dates for easter? Isnt it linked to passover? so with that reasoning- the jews set the dates for carnival lol

and another question- I know many Christians who dont celebrate lent. Is lent soley a catholic thing?

[snowbird]

Lent is 'observed' by all Christian churches.....not just Catholics....lent is a 40 day period of penitence leading up to the 'celebration' of Easter.

[straphanger]

i dunno snow...i have a christian girl in my office and she said her church doesnt observe lent, only easter :dontknow:
i think that most protestant churches do not acknowledge it... that's why i asked

[snowbird]

I stand corrected..... just looked further into it and ..... not all Christian Churches observe lent..... and because of this there is a huge contradiction even among Protestant churches..... as some do and some do not.

[letric]

I stand corrected..... just looked further into it and ..... not all Christian Churches observe lent..... and because of this there is a huge contradiction even among Protestant churches..... as some do and some do not.

Live and learn ...