Is there a Therapeutic Value to Carnival ?

[snowbird]

It has long been said of Trinidadians that .....'they are the happiest people on earth'. In a country that has taken it's knocks over the years, in areas of politics, law and order, and most recently escalating crime, the people of T&T still seem to go about 'unfazed' for the most part.
One would think that in a country where the 'quality of life' seems to be under attack 24/7 that the citizens would be falling apart under the stress of day to day life; yet, the one constant that has never been affected by the changes in T&T is ...... Carnival or the 'freeing up' as some refer to it; regardless of the crisis currently under review, one thing is a given....... 'The Show must go on'.

Judging by the thousands who participate in this 'season', my question is....... does Carnival have some therapeutic value?
Does this 'annual freeing up' help in 'de-stressing' some people?

[Sirius]

The only reason there is any real therapeutic value to carnival is so much of our culture revolves around it that we don't have a lot of other avenues to de-stress.

What is the real benefit to carnival? In its current form, it is certainly no longer the greatest show on Earth; it is a mass revelry of drunkards and unbecoming behavior. It would be a greater show for tourists if bands were actual shows of culture rather than drunkenness in feathered bathing suits. The music shows and competitions are great, but it is a crying shame that it is not a year-round thing engaging many different genres. Our one tracked, one seasoned approach to culture does us more harm than good if you ask me.

I'm not saying we should end Carnival, I'm saying it's gone far off track from what it should be. In its current form I don't think it is a very beneficial thing other than for some extra revenue that could be generated elsewhere. As for the therapeutic value you have indicated in this thread, IMO it is far outweighed by the wileness mentality that it encourages in everyday life the rest of the year.


Thread moved to appropriate forum

[serenity]

I suppose there is. At least thats what the masqueraders will tell me.
While carnival is arguably the biggest stress reliever, it is hardly the only one. There are many other opportunities ppl can, and do embrace on an individual level.

[Falcon]

For me, NO.
Carnival in my opinion does very little for the country in terms of individual happiness. Too much debauchery that can't be justified by the money it brings into TT.

[snowbird]

For me, NO.
Carnival in my opinion does very little for the country in terms of individual happiness. Too much debauchery that can't be justified by the money it brings into TT.


The economic aspect, or people's opinion that this is strictly debauchery aside; don't you think that there is some therapeutic value for some people in taking part in a cultural explosion of music, and dance, and socializing, and culminating in street theatre. Don't you think there is something liberating about the whole exercise.

By way of distraction, and eventual freeing from other stresses, just think about it, you have people who spend an entire year in a 'creative' environment, be it any of the above, couldn't that in itself be therapeutic?

[Falcon]

Take off them glasses you wearing.
We are Caribbean people, we don't bottle up 'stress' and then need 2 days to 'release'. Maaaan you get ketch with this nancy-story about release of a year's stress.....stewwps, look, in Trinidad when it rain hard we doh go to wuk and school. Is only now people have a long trek to go POS if they living south. Before you was alwasy close to wuk. Yuh leavin early. Yuh wukkin slow......stewwwwps what stress you talking bout........look, is Sunday, dont frustrate people on the Lord's day please! :evil:

[Solachica]

Some people cant wait for Carnival every yr and some fly in especially for it every yr.
It doesnt affect me in any way, so even if its cancelled it wount bother me and many others tht I know. :geek:

[serenity]

Take off them glasses you wearing.
We are Caribbean people, we don't bottle up 'stress' and then need 2 days to 'release'. Maaaan you get ketch with this nancy-story about release of a year's stress.....stewwps, look, in Trinidad when it rain hard we doh go to wuk and school. Is only now people have a long trek to go POS if they living south. Before you was alwasy close to wuk. Yuh leavin early. Yuh wukkin slow......stewwwwps what stress you talking bout........look, is Sunday, dont frustrate people on the Lord's day please! :evil:


SB, like yuh REAL stress out Falc dey, look de man typing nonsense! :lol:

Actually, I agree with Sb in terms of Carnival being a special time when it seems the whole country is unified in celebrating on the same thing, like Christmastime. The entire atmosphere changes to one of eager anticipation (though some of us may be anticipating a quiet weekend in Tgo). There seems to be more music playing, more bustling, more excitement.

[snowbird]

Take off them glasses you wearing.
We are Caribbean people, we don't bottle up 'stress' and then need 2 days to 'release'. Maaaan you get ketch with this nancy-story about release of a year's stress.....stewwps, look, in Trinidad when it rain hard we doh go to wuk and school. Is only now people have a long trek to go POS if they living south. Before you was alwasy close to wuk. Yuh leavin early. Yuh wukkin slow......stewwwwps what stress you talking bout........look, is Sunday, dont frustrate people on the Lord's day please! :evil:


SB, like yuh REAL stress out Falc dey, look de man typing nonsense! :lol:

Actually, I agree with Sb in terms of Carnival being a special time when it seems the whole country is unified in celebrating on the same thing, like Christmastime. The entire atmosphere changes to one of eager anticipation (though some of us may be anticipating a quiet weekend in Tgo). There seems to be more music playing, more bustling, more excitement.

There you go, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
For many Carnival is not just a two day event, for some it's their life's vocation (and business) and for most of those people the motivator is still 'love of the art form'; for others, it the thing they look forward to, and as you have stated, the anticipation is sometimes more fun that the actual two days. For many, it is a reason to (or excuse :lol: ) to socialize. Regardless of the reason, how can any of these be a negative thing?

[Sirius]

Those factors would not be negative at all snowbird. My point though is the ills brought by Carnival in its current form far outweigh these positives. If carnival was not a big excuse to get drunk and revel and misbehave, but instead a show of talent and art then these positive contributors would not be hurt in the least. In fact they might benefit through more elaborate competitions with more international attention and year-round attention through other shows.

[brag]

There is nothing therapeutic about carnival, and if it is indeed therapeutic, that still has to be researched and proven. Why not confined it to private homes, private parks and private halls while the research is being done. It needs to be removed from the streets of T&T.

I recommend a licence for such activities while research for its therapeutic value is completed. A licence for any carnival display should be made mandatory. The price for such licences should be used for providing police protection around the venues of such activities.

Public carnival as currently promoted in T&T is nothing but the promotion of debauchery at taxpayers expenses. It needs to be seriously curtailed. There are other ways of promoting calypso and pan as culture. These two forms of art and culture are improperly associated with carnival and the debauchery that goes with carnival. They need to be divorced from each other, and freed from being referred to as T&T culture. Carnival can be continued at private associations, and be allowed to continue free from public viewing as an aspect of T&T culture.

Carnival is not unique to T&T, and is not unique to any particular culture either. The T&T boasts of carnival as our culture is based on a false premise.

[BW]

Carnival needs to be scrapped. HIV infections, unplanned pregnancies, promiscuity, adultery and all the rest of ills associated with Carnival do far more harm to our society, than to justify any 'therapeutic value' to the individual. It's just disgusting we can look at carnival, acknowledge all that goes on during that time, and still be proud of our "culture".

We can find stress relief and artistic expression in other, healthier ways. Carnival in its present form needs to be done away with.

[serenity]

I cant believe what I'm reading. Get rid of Carnival? Then u might as well as get rid of Christmas too with all its perceived increased commercialism, materialism and similar debauchery and other excesses. Lets consider the health risks in the overeating and drinking that takes place at Christmas time and not to mention the increased rates of suicide! :shock: Have u even heard those new Christmas songs? All about brushing and how to season yuh meat. Yuh ever went to a Christmas night party with ppl in dey pajamas and negligee? Ban Christmas too yes! It get too nasty!

Please ppl.

Oh and one more thing, not all of us would prefer a Carnival of sitting under the trees in Normandie and sip dainty cups of tea with our parasols watching sailors and Indians pass by. Some dont mind chipping down the streets or bussing a wine now and then in dey little frivolous costumes. Not everything have to be one way forever. Carnival evolved and the bikini mass is part of it too.

I aint saying it eh have plenty wrong with Carnival, but surely there are sensible ways of addressing the attendant ills.

[Huma]

I read this thread and honestly wonder how many people here have experienced Carnival. Or have even stood on the side of the road to see a band pass.

This whole idea of drunken debauchery describes one extreme end of the festival. The Carnival I know (and not necessarily as a masquerader) is about celebration, energy, fun and generally positive vibes. It's definitely a euphoric release, and there's definitely bacchanal, but yuh hadda be either ignorant or sadly close-minded if you honestly think that all or even most masqueraders during Carnival are drunk, wining, oversexed pigs. Ridiculous.

There's a lot to dislike about what Carnival has become, I agree. But don't delude yourselves about what it is and isn't.

And this is coming from someone who generally stays away from Carnival to avoid the noise and the rush.






There is nothing therapeutic about carnival, and if it is indeed therapeutic, that still has to be researched and proven.

I think the same thing should be done for the vast negative impact that's being touted so much in this thread.

[Huma]

As for the actual thread topic, I'd definitely agree that there's a therapeutic aspect of Carnival.

I just don't think it's for everybody. I self can't really deal with it every year.

That doesn't mean I want to take it away from anyone else, though.


As an aside, I remember writing a post on the old forum about Carnival being the one time of the year when plenty of the neighborhood sprangers in Woodbrook would disappear off the streets at night and focus their energies into playing pan and working at mas camps, rather than making life harder for residents.

[snowbird]

Seems like some of us are in so much of a hurry to do away with Carnival that we could end up throwing out the baby with the bath water :lol:

As one who has watched Carnival evolve from the days of 'mas on a truck', 'pan around the neck', 'hot shirt and dungarees', 'flour bag sailor', where wire was bent for 'pretty mas', and revellers made their own costumes, to finally the mass produced for profit ..... naked mas.

I do agree with some that while there are things that are not so good about today's version, there are far more things good about it, and to me the most important being...... thousands of people still find some value in participating.

For those unhappy with the current style of Carnival, I say, let's clean it up, let's get back to the original model of what T&T Carnival was all about, the enhanced version of the European Carnival that we created; let's leave the Brazilian Carnival to Brazil.

[kemist]

all yuh want to take away holidays from ah trini :o

the country shuts down for 3 days, carnival monday & tuesday and hangover wednesday ; ummm i mean ash wednesday.

I like watching the masqueraders, especially the women in their $3000 bikinis with shinning dust.
Of course i dont actually go to the savannah, i just catch the highlights during news. During the day i'm either on a river or beach lime, which are relaxing to me.
but as usual, the traffic is stress.

[Sirius]

I read this thread and honestly wonder how many people here have experienced Carnival. Or have even stood on the side of the road to see a band pass.

This whole idea of drunken debauchery describes one extreme end of the festival. The Carnival I know (and not necessarily as a masquerader) is about celebration, energy, fun and generally positive vibes. It's definitely a euphoric release, and there's definitely bacchanal, but yuh hadda be either ignorant or sadly close-minded if you honestly think that all or even most masqueraders during Carnival are drunk, wining, oversexed pigs. Ridiculous.

There's a lot to dislike about what Carnival has become, I agree. But don't delude yourselves about what it is and isn't.

And this is coming from someone who generally stays away from Carnival to avoid the noise and the rush.

I began staying away from carnival a couple years ago because of the nonsense that I would witness with every passing band. From Tragarete Road, one would see many bands pass. Each would have a majority of yes, people walking with the band and having a good time. But too great a number of each band would be dressed in something that could barely pass for feathered underwear, wining and rubbing up on random people as they passed, peeing in open view, lying down on top people car, pelting bottle over the fence into people yard and the whole while waving a beer bottle around in a drunk stupor. It's not the majority but it is certainly a large enough number to categorically state that this is not the kind of celebration that can be considered healthy for the country.

[Chicabonita]

I began staying away from carnival a couple years ago because of the nonsense that I would witness with every passing band. From Tragarete Road, one would see many bands pass. Each would have a majority of yes, people walking with the band and having a good time. But too great a number of each band would be dressed in something that could barely pass for feathered underwear, wining and rubbing up on random people as they passed, peeing in open view, lying down on top people car, pelting bottle over the fence into people yard and the whole while waving a beer bottle around in a drunk stupor. It's not the majority but it is certainly a large enough number to categorically state that this is not the kind of celebration that can be considered healthy for the country.

true talk :|

[snowbird]

......... It's not the majority but it is certainly a large enough number to categorically state that this is not the kind of celebration that can be considered healthy for the country........


When you say healthy, do you mean in the sense of the overall message that the 'minority' sends that this a time for debauchery, silliness, and lack of respect for oneself and others?

I would say the negative impact on the country can only be claimed if the majority of the citizens were being offended by what a minority does; it would appear that for right now anyway, the people of the country are healthy enough to be able to put things in perspective and simply dismiss the actions of a few common, loose, stupid or drunk people as just that.

[Huma]

I began staying away from carnival a couple years ago because of the nonsense that I would witness with every passing band. From Tragarete Road, one would see many bands pass. Each would have a majority of yes, people walking with the band and having a good time. But too great a number of each band would be dressed in something that could barely pass for feathered underwear, wining and rubbing up on random people as they passed, peeing in open view, lying down on top people car, pelting bottle over the fence into people yard and the whole while waving a beer bottle around in a drunk stupor. It's not the majority but it is certainly a large enough number to categorically state that this is not the kind of celebration that can be considered healthy for the country.

I used to live in Woodbrook, right next to Tragarete Road in fact, a block away from Cipriani Blvd and a few minutes from Ariapita Avenue. I was in de very heart of the Carnival route. Almost every major band passed within 50 yards of my house, and many of them passed right in front of it. Quite a few jouvert bands as well passed in front of my house on Carnival morning.

People get rowdy sometimes, yeah, but what you're talking about there is nowhere as prevalent as you make it seem.

I would never even think about making Peter pay for Paul in this situation. Most people conduct themselves civilly, and I think the focus should be on making the aberrant few fall in line, rather than removing the entire celebration.

[Falcon]

I read this thread and honestly wonder how many people here have experienced Carnival. Or have even stood on the side of the road to see a band pass.

This whole idea of drunken debauchery describes one extreme end of the festival. The Carnival I know (and not necessarily as a masquerader) is about celebration, energy, fun and generally positive vibes. It's definitely a euphoric release, and there's definitely bacchanal, but yuh hadda be either ignorant or sadly close-minded if you honestly think that all or even most masqueraders during Carnival are drunk, wining, oversexed pigs. Ridiculous.

There's a lot to dislike about what Carnival has become, I agree. But don't delude yourselves about what it is and isn't.

And this is coming from someone who generally stays away from Carnival to avoid the noise and the rush.

I began staying away from carnival a couple years ago because of the nonsense that I would witness with every passing band. From Tragarete Road, one would see many bands pass. Each would have a majority of yes, people walking with the band and having a good time. But too great a number of each band would be dressed in something that could barely pass for feathered underwear, wining and rubbing up on random people as they passed, peeing in open view, lying down on top people car, pelting bottle over the fence into people yard and the whole while waving a beer bottle around in a drunk stupor. It's not the majority but it is certainly a large enough number to categorically state that this is not the kind of celebration that can be considered healthy for the country.
Amen!

[Sirius]

How long ago Huma? Because I talking as recently as maybe 5 or so years ago. And from what I hear from relatives who still go, it has only gotten worse from what I knew it.

[snowbird]

I would never even think about making Peter pay for Paul in this situation. Most people conduct themselves civilly, and I think the focus should be on making the aberrant few fall in line, rather than removing the entire celebration.


Bingo !!! and it would appear the people who organize the events are also of this mind set. From what I understand, some bands cognisant that they cater to thousands of people now provide things like portable toilets etc.
What if it were to be mandated that any band over a certain size 'has' to make toilet facilities, garbage facilities etc. available to 'their' revellers, and like the oldern days have people to keep thier drunken or disorderly revellers in line (that's what the MP's in the old Sailor bands were used for :lol: ).

As for the Government they too have to recognize that based on the size of this 'national' parade they have an obligation to provide adequate facilities and security to the spectators the events attract.
And while we are on the clean up vein :lol: . In order to clean up what some people see as 'an absence of costumes'; why not push for getting back to the original style of costumes (before naked mas), do this by only awarding recognition and monetary prizes to bands that use the Trini format, and if memory serves me correctly awards and 'bragging rights' is still a huge motivator to band leaders.
People or bands will still be free to engage in Brazilian style mas, but will not be considered contenders for anything in the festival. There are a hundred and one ways you can force the citizens to get back to what was once a Carnival that was very unique to T&T, with all of the therapeutic value :lol:

[punjabtrini]

Carnival is therapeutic but if you are teefing, shooting, abusing others in that process then it is not fun. Use that same energy for productive endeavours for the other 350 days of the year!

[Huma]

Sirius, I lived in Woodbrook for 14 years and only moved 2 years ago.

I observed Carnival Tuesday in Port of Spain as part of my job last year. In fact in one of my earlier posts, I was going to mention how little wining there was on the streets due to the popularity of the no-wining-necessary Jumbie tune.

[Sirius]

Well Huma if it has improved then I'm glad for that. However I still can't find justification for carnival in its present form. Now note, I'm not advocating it be abolished...but a whole lot has got to change. As far as I'm concerned Carnival as a national event should be a show of talent and art, not rubbing up and littering.

[Huma]

There will always be revelry in Carnival. There can't be Carnival without revelry. Carnival, at its core, is all about revelry. Keep that in mind.

So while I've always been a staunch supporter of a return to (more) art in Carnival, let's not get this idea that Carnival should ideally be a choreographed Best Village show to sit and observe. People should wine, jump, jam and enjoy themselves. There is a catharsis, and therein lies the appeal for many. All we need is more of a balance.

[snowbird]

^^^
Amen.

[snowbird]

Well let me be the first to say, having viewed the Carnival celebrations thus far via the telecasts offered through several different mediums (and I thank all involved for that); I would like to say that many of the myths of Carnival have been debunked for me.

Safety...... at every event I have seen so far, everyone seems to be able to move around in relatively safety.
Debauchery...... not sure when it is supposed to arrive, but as of now, all I have seen are revellers having a good time.
Drukenness...... again, from the fetes, to the shows, to J'Ouvert, and now the street celebrations, I am yet to witness one instance of a drunk making a nuisance of themselves; what I did see were people indulging, and most of them responsibly.
Cleanliness..... well I was duly impressed, when right before the TV cameras we all saw a clean-up crew(in their distinctive orange florescent shirts) come down the street, busy sweeping up, clearing garbage bins placed strategically along the route, and replacing garbage bags where needed.

All in all, Carnival seems to be a very positive exercise, one that I think should certainly give the average Trinidadian a lift; I can't see why there wouldn't be some therapeutic value; personally I see alot more positive than negative in it.