HAVE MONEY RENT A WOMB ?

[Harry Williamn]

I have heard it said that some people ( depending on their culture,religious beliefs and nature ) will do ANYTHING for money ,,,is this true or not I really never gave it much thoughtful analysis but this report left me kind of wondering about the ORIGIN ,cause ,or to put it another way : " IS GREED REALLY BASED ON RACE OR CULTURAL FACTORS AND OR RELIGIOUS BELIFES ?"

Take a look if you will at this story ....Quote.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ikUw ... QD8TRTC000 (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ikUwI9FMWYFyzrTTkkqNtMugzvZQD8TRTC000)

[guyguy]

Harry,
Are you married? If so, how long have you been married?

[peanut]

guy, why yuh even bothering?

[lexbarker]

So, is there something wrong with that? Don't put your moral and ethical labels on other people.

[guyguy]

guy, why yuh even bothering?
Yuh know, you're absolutely right. I should have just passed on this. Thanks for the nudge.
Guy

[dancerboy]

HARRY WILLIAMN, DO U REALLY CARE. THEY ARE CARRYING THE BABIES OF AMERICANS,CANADIANS AND BRITISH WOMEN. I WILL ALSO ENLIGHTEN U, U COULD ALSO GET A KIDNEY TO BUY IN INDIA. DANCERBOY

[Harry Williamn]

What a strange bunch of idiots ....do you fall into the character of " strange bunch of idiots " ???

One posts a story which one has read and one has questions which one post on the board....some read and some think and some did not even read or could not read or failed " Reading Comprehension" or is so steeped in bile towards TNT Republicans that their answers ,responses,harrangues,doltish responses are beyond my comprehension....please,help me teacher Springer from Tunapuna Government,you did not teach me how to read " doltishness!"

Some of these same people lambasted the SURROGATE MOTHER post and now here they are where everyone can view their idiotic responses to a really complex question which simply stated is: " IS GREED REALLY BASED ON RACE OR CULTURAL FACTORS AND OR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ?"

Do you really expect me to respond to idiocy ?

I cannot.

If one states an intelligent response based upon intelligent analysis of the problem, then ,of course I shall respond...until then ," The Target still Remains."

Tonight is fete at the Hilton and my Family ,friends and I are present.

We took a few rooms for the weekend and tonight we going to Party till Dawn ...you know how it is" dancer man" the party doh stop till dawn...you should be here right now ...see if you could make it next year.

We have a few tables with a CLICO sign right behind us and all of our Tables have a bottle of REMY MARTIN BRANDY constantly in play!
You cannot miss us...I am decked out in an electric blue suit (Tailored especially for me and me only ...not " off the nail!" ) with black lapels, black shirt ,and a Gold Presidential Rolex,white Gold with a solitary diamond tie tack and matching cuff links ...yes we are truly blessed.

Feel free to come to the tables and ask for Mr.Williamn and mention TTonline and forget the poltics and lets us party tonight for we are the TNT Republicans.
Happy New Year to All and may God bless you all as we see you Next Year.
Happy New Year Mods.

[oecarb]

Is this greed?


Suman Dodia, a pregnant, baby-faced 26-year-old, said she will buy a house with the $4,500 she receives from the British couple whose child she's carrying. It would have taken her 15 years to earn that on her maid's monthly salary of $25.

Or is this?


You cannot miss us...I am decked out in an electric blue suit with black lapels, black shirt ,and a Gold Presidential Rolex,white Gold with diamond tie tack and matching cuff links .


.

[Harry Williamn]

oecarb....You have made one of the finest and most cogent comparisons I have seen so far. I commend you on your brilliance.Well done!
She is ( I assume but not with certainty for she could be an Illegal alien in India from Nepal,Pakistan,Bangladesh etc ) an Indian Citizen born and raised in a Country which has spent tons of money developing nuclear weapons therefore we know India has money and is an economic force in the world and there are quite a few Indian Billionaires!

I on the other hand was born and raised in TNT.We have no nuclear weapons and we have no billionaires that I personally know of! We are not an economic and military power house like India. We are a baby nation compared with India a nation Thousands of years old.

Despite the great economic and military might of India tiny TNT by comparison offered me ( like it or not the PNM and the British Government ) an opportunity to go to school and obey my educators ( and not mind their sexual or other personal business ) and learn my lessons and from the infants department to the University I did as I was told to do ...learn my lesson and do my best to come first in test and to graduate at the top of my class which I did and my TNT rewarded me with a great profession and a great investment climate to invest the money I EARNED BY HONEST AND DEDICATED SERVICE TO MY COUNTRY TNT ( and for eight years another country's military) ...having invested and saved and taught my family to do the same by example and living in TNT under the PNM and other governments which all together allowed me a great place to live,work,invest and raised my family I am able to enjoy the fruits of my labour!

Now I am sure if India had provided that unfortunate woman what TNT afforded me we will not have been having this conversation!

Do you,Sir,dare to even think, far more suggest, that mighty India cannot, if it wanted to do so, provide this woman with the same opportunities which little TNT have provided for me and all who wanted it ?
When I attended High school it was not free unless you won a scholarship from exhibition class,Sir! ....do you dare say India does not have enough money and resources to do as TNT did or is it that THE GREED OF THE WEALTHY INDIANS HAVE DOOMED THE POOR ? OR IS IT THE " SO CALLED " INDIAN "PANCHAYATS" CAN ONLY OPERATE AGAINST A PARTICULAR RACIAL GROUP ?

OR IS IT THE RELIGIOUS CASTE SYSTEM WHICH HAS DOOMED THE POOR TO POVERTY AND DESPERATION WHICH COMES BACK TO THE TARGET QUESTIONS ?????

Hence,the Target Remains still ...but great try!

[serenity]

We have prostitutes here, dont we? Couldnt that be another point of comparison, Harry William? Did corporate greed cause that? And I'm sure some of them make my month's salary in one week, compared to the meager earnings they'd have to survive with if they were to get a URP job or be a maid.

[Harry Williamn]

Did they ( if they are TNT Citizens born and raised here ) have an opportunity to attend free high school ? Techinical and vocational schools ?

Very,very,low cost University ?

Do you remember the beggar lady who found an eighteen month old baby in a trace in Morvant and raised here and educated her and today that child is one of the well off TNT Citizens ?

Please,serenity,come better than tha because when I went to school there was no " free high school " it was free up to fith standard then go get a job or learn a trade or plant garden or thief and go to jail.

Everything was hard to get in from Teaching to Nursing to a Government Job or in the OIl fields unless some one knew you or you did like I did ...study like hell for long hours in candlelight and then as things improved a Coleman light so you could win a bursary or some kind of scholarship to high school then another schalarship to University and I worked my tail off and got it so today ( them prosititues are not 60 years old ) they are young so you know that they had free high school and all that so what is the comparison ?

The Target Remains.

[oecarb]

oecarb....You have made one of the finest and most cogent comparisons I have seen so far. I commend you on your brilliance.Well done!
She is ( I assume but not with certainty for she could be an Illegal alien in India from Nepal,Pakistan,Bangladesh etc ) an Indian Citizen born and raised in a Country which has spent tons of money developing nuclear weapons therefore we know India has money and is an economic force in the world and there are quite a few Indian Billionaires!

I on the other hand was born and raised in TNT.We have no nuclear weapons and we have no billionaires that I personally know of! We are not an economic and military power house like India. We are a baby nation compared with India a nation Thousands of years old.

Do you,Sir,dare to even think far more suggest that mighty India cannot if it wanted to do so provide this woman with the same opportunities which little TNT have provided for me and when I went to High school is was not free unless you won a scholarship from exhibition class,Sir! ....do you dare say India does not have enough money and resources to do as TNT did or is it that THE GREED OF THE WEALTHY INDIANS HAVE DOOMED THE POOR ? OR IS IT THE RELIGIOUS CASTE SYSTEM WHICH HAS DOOMED THE POOR TO POVERTY AND DESPERATION WHICH COMES BACK TO THE TARGET QUESTIONS ?????

Hence,the Target Remains still ...but great try!

Harry,

I have to tell you that I have said repeatedly on this and other forums that we in Trinidad and Tobago would never be able to understand the problems that countries such as India, Pakistan and most of the countries of Africa face in trying to develop fair social systems.

I thought I understood this but it was only after setting foot in Africa for the first time in early 2007 that I began to understand the problems faced by countries with centuries of tribal tradition and distances that would make the average Trini go numb.

In Namibia, for instance, it takes over 12 hours to drive from the south to the north even with fantastically straight roads built by the Germans where you can cruise comfortably at 80-90 mph. You are talking about 1000 miles, almost the distance from TT to Florida. Most of the country is desert (the Klahari and the Namib).

The tribes that live there - the Damara, the Herrero, Ovambo, San, Kavambo, Himba etc - have their centuries of tradition.

Some time before we arrived there, we heard that a man had beaten his grand-daughter to death. They were Himbas and it is their tradition for women to bare their breasts. The girl's "crime" was that she had worn a school uniform and covered her breasts. The killing was illegal under Namibian law but, who would have stopped him?

The population is about 1.8 million (about 50% more than T&T). Have you any idea how difficult it is to try and educate kids, provide healthcare etc?

India is much larger tha Namibia and has a population of 1.1 billion (almost a thousand times the population of T&T). The people also have thousands of years of tradition. Can you imagine what a small dent a few centuries of Christianity and Western vakues would make on such a country.

The caste system is illegal in India, for istance, but who will make sure that this law is upheld in India's 700,000 villages?

And as for nuclear power etc, consider this: $10 per head in TT is about $13 million. In India, at $10 per head, you are talking $12 billion. That is enough to create 1200 millionaires. Big difference, eh?

It is easier to spend this on weapons than on improving the social standing of the people. and what would $10 a head get you if you want to provide education, healthcare etc? You would probably need closer to $500 per head.

.

[Harry Williamn]

Well said and thanks for your reply but sorry ," The Target Remains Still " because it was you who made the comparison not me and quite frankly,is not that India's problem ?

It is not the same traditions which Indians ( now you do not know what is my racial heritage so do not go there ) which Indians wish to place upon their children and do so with pride and so the question is still the same and far more did you investigate the COMBINED wealth of India and the actual cost to India if every rich and wealthy and filthy rich Indian decides to make a difference ...what will it cost then ?

So back to the question about GREED....

[oecarb]

Well said and thanks for your reply but sorry ," The Target Remains Still " because it was you who made the comparison not me and quite frankly,is not that India's problem ?

It is not the same traditions which Indians ( now you do not know what is my racial heritage so do not go there ) which Indians wish to place upon their children and do so with pride and so the question is still the same and far more did you investigat the wealth of India and the actual cost to India if every rich and wealthy and filthy rich Indian decides to make a difference what will it cost then ?

So back to the question about GREED....

First, when I asked the question, I merely wanted to be sure we meant the same thing by the word "greed". Many would say that anything above what you need is greed. Some would call it "luxury" or treats.

Second, why should every rich and wealthy Indian decide to make a difference?

Does every rich and filthy rich American do so? Did Bush and his filthy rich cronies care about the black people who suffered under Katrina? Do they care about the 45 million Americans who canot afford healthcare?

When you spend your thousands on your "electric blue suit with black lapels, black shirt ,and a Gold Presidential Rolex, white Gold with diamond tie tack and matching cuff links", do you think about the poor people in Laventille? Of course not. You worked for it and it's yours. Let them work for theirs. How would you feel if the govt tried to force you to care? Like tax your tail till you bawl - to get money to help the poor?

And if a woman earning $25 a month decides to rent her womb for nine months (be a surrogate mother) so she can buy a house, is she not showing some sort of initiative - given her lack of capacity for earning otherwise. There are over 700 million people in India earning less than $2 a day and almost 900 million in China. Which is exactly why all them big American companies rushing to set up factories there - so they can get people who will work for peanuts.

And the rich have a name for people who care about the poor. They call them Communists and they spend a lot of time and money fighting them.

Sure it is India's problem. Or is it?

.

[Harry Williamn]

Again,Sir OECARB.you have made a rather gallant attempt to destroy the Target,but,you shall admit sooner or later that ," The Target Remains."

The word greed is GREED and that is what it is what it is just plain and simple GREED and the only people who seek to " split hairs " over its meaning ( outside of a Philosophy lecture hall ) are people who have ( many with great reason) a troubled conscience about their wealth or will it be better described as ," ill gotten gains ????" ...ask some very prominent Politicians who are under investigation for obtaining wealth by fraudulent means ????....these felons to be or maybe are the ones who quibble about the meaning of " greed" ...we all on this forum surely no what " greed is "....do you quibble about its meaning .Sir ?

Why should wealthy Indians " share " their wealth with " so many poor Indians ?" Is not the answer relevant to the " Target ?"
Every TNT Republican of another racial group must be shocked at such a question! Why ? It seems to many people that some Indians in TNT seem to leave the Impression that Indians have this " especial love " for each other as can be seen by the hiring practices of some Indians and it is firmly believed in TNT that once some Indians get into a job position in an organization they show that " especial love for each other " by doing their utmost to bring in as much Indians into that organization as is humanly possible and they seem to promote as much Indians as possible to the highest places in that organization and how many large and viable Indian business can point to a certain other race in the high places of management ?

How many people of a certain other race can successfully open up a business in a Predominantly Indian area ?
Some of you may not like it and even challenge it but it is the solid belief of quite a lot of TNT Republicans so do not shoot the messenger!
Sir,based on what is seen and or believed to be the norm here in TNT it is assumed that all Indians in India ( the motherland ) have that " especial love for each other " hence it shall not be a problem for them to " share " their fortunes with the poor!

What Mr.Bush and His Americans ( quite a resourceful and very,very,productive people whose only problem today is close to what you have hinted at but not quite nailed ...that is a separate and shall be a very heated topic if you go there!) do with their population is not my business at this time. I am about my country ,TNT. Direct that to the Ex pats they can surely answer!

I did not spend " thousands " on an electric blue suit but actually 600 TNT dollars;Rolex a gift from company for out pacing every other person in the organization job wise which translated into excellent returns on investments for the organization.
We work hard and smart,not hard alone,and the Organization rewards us properly. The tie tacks and cuff links: a gift from one of my children for being an excellent dad to him all his life!
What I have been blessed with happens to be "MINE" and I have paid quite a lot of taxes on my income and investments and if the Government decides to Tax more and more I shall pay more and more Taxes without a complaint if the money is used for the betterment of TNT and not corruptly used.
I have been to countries in the world where the Tax rate is very,very,high but the results are excellent by way of service to the citizens.

Poor people in Laventille ? There are many,many,people in Laventille with very,very,high incomes ,Sir! They all had a better opportunity that I had because they have full access "FREE HIGH SCHOOL AND FREE TECHNICAL SCHOOLS,SERVOL AND ALL KINDS OF " FREE MONEY !"....
I AM VERY ,VERY,VERY,COMFORTABLE WITH MY BLESSINGS!

Actually the Communist did not seem to fare very well due to the " resurgence" of capitalism ,Sir!

Did you read the comments on the " SURROGATE MOTHER POST ",SIR, ????? That post was condemned by some of the very people who are now defending the " RENT A WOMB" !!!! ALAS! I AM TRULY FLABGERGASTED !!! IS IT FILP FLOP TIME HERE ? I THOUGHT " FLIP FLOPPING "WAS A MITT ROMNEY AND HILARY CLINTON THING ????

So have you really addressed the Target WHICH BY THE WAY ,STILL REMAINS!
Thank you for trying!

[oecarb]

Harry, in my view, your most recent post is total drivel. The fact is that the theme of your thread is:


IS GREED REALLY BASED ON RACE OR CULTURAL FACTORS AND OR RELIGIOUS BELIFES

In my view the answer is in the text of the article you quoted:


Commercial surrogacy has been legal in India since 2002, as it is in many other countries, including the United States.

The answer is clearly No.

Do you seriously think that any rich infertile woman of whatever race or cultural or religious beliefs who wanted a baby woud balk at the idea of paying a surrogate mother to have a child?

And do you seriously think that, if she paid enough, she would not find takers in T&T or the UK or the USA?

Do you really think it is greed for a woman earning $25 a month to accept $4,500 to buy a house or $6,250 to pay for her daughter's education when surrogate mothers in the USA are often paid up to $25,000 or more?

And what about the various businessmen in the UK, USA etc who set up the agencies and make money out of surrogacy? Would you not agree that they might be greedy?

From the IARC (International Assisted Reproduction Center) website (USA):

SURROGATE REIMBURSEMENT
Surrogate reimbursement for her gestational services is $13,000 to $25,000 (negotiable with surrogate).

Surrogate reimbursement in the case of a multiple birth/c-section: an additional $2,500 (negotiable with surrogate).

http://www.fertilityhelp.com/CM/Surroga ... rogram.asp (http://www.fertilityhelp.com/CM/Surrogacy/Estimated_Expenses_For_Complete_Surrogacy_Program. asp)

[sapodila]

From the link you posted Harrywilliam....

"
Ritu Sodhi, a furniture importer from Los Angeles who was born in India, spent $200,000 trying to get pregnant through in-vitro fertilization, and was considering spending another $80,000 to hire a surrogate mother in the United States.

"We were so desperate," she said. "It was emotionally and financially exhausting."
Then, on the Internet, Sodhi found Patel's clinic.

After spending about $20,000 — more than many couples because it took the surrogate mother several cycles to conceive — Sodhi and her husband are now back home with their 4-month-old baby, Neel. They plan to return to Anand for a second child.

"Even if it cost $1 million, the joy that they had delivered to me is so much more than any money that I have given them," said Sodhi. "They're godsends to deliver something so special.""
Where is the GREED? These people are willing to do whatever is necessary to have a child. If their is SOMEONE to fulfill this void............why not?!

[Harry Williamn]

So only the " RICH" could have afford to have children and the poor must bear them and that makes it quite fashionable and correct ?

So the Rich Indian is allowed to " rent a womb " and the poor ?

Why did he not give the poor woman enough to build a house and let her have her own Children and be a Godfather and God mother to the Children ?

Did you ever look at the post " Surrogate Motherhood ?" and see the response where some people refer to the post as " sickos " etc and now because it is in India it is suddenly okay ?
I am just asking!

[Harry Williamn]

sapodila:
Mahatma Ghandhi was once accused of changing his position on a subject and he replied in words to the effect: Two weekes ago I held a position on the matter but I have changed my position because in two weeks I have learnt enough to do so.

Well you seemed to have changed your position somewhat sapodila because let me refresh your memory as you explain this in comparison to what you have written above....

Quote you:
quote Re: Surrogate Mother
by sapodila on Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:01 am

Harry Williamn wrote:
This an interesting topic and my question would be what if the offer involved like a substantial amount of Cash say 1.3Million TT $ plus excellent medical care during and after pregnancy;a well furnished house and the right to be the Child"s God mother plus the child will be told the facts at an agreed upon age and will be allowed to spend time and vacation with you as part of the family if your character is excellent...now what will be your objections ?
Sapodila:
"Only stone cold hearted people will do that and desperate couples would accept those terms ....HW"
Unquote

Well,sapo,what did you learn to not call the person accepting the imaginary offer " stone cold hearted..." ????

[oecarb]

Harry, you say you are an intelligent man.

Yet you seem to have changed your stance on surrogacy, flip-flopping between it being a good thing (on the surrogacy thread) and it being a bad thing (on this thread).

For your information, the question asked in the surrogacy thread by pumkinvinefamilee was:


Ladies, do you think you can be a surrogate mother for a couple who cannot have kids?

Your current thread asks
IS GREED REALLY BASED ON RACE OR CULTURAL FACTORS AND OR RELIGIOUS BELIFES

In other words, forumites are being asked totally different questions - one at a personal level and the other at a general level. Yet you seem to be expecting the same answer.

What a person is willing to do is one thing. Whether they want to criticise someone else for doing it is another thing.

I, personally, wouldn't give you one of my kidneys but I won't object if someone else did. And, if you paid them, it is between you and them, as far as I am concerned.

.

[sapodila]

Two different situations........two different approaches. One personal no money involved as in the 'Surrogate thread'..... the other the "rich" having the means and the "poor" accepting the terms to find their means.........HW..... Where is the "GREED"....... I guess they could have gone to Russia, Africa or China and buy some kids on the black market who don't share their genes, race, culture or religious beliefs instead eh! or maybe thief some Indian kids from some back street clinic in Calcutta :roll: . Anyways! I still stand but my word....if I had to make the decision to become a "Surrogate Mother" for a near and dear love one like my God Sister and her husband, By all means I would..... mind you....no money or honey involved here.

[lexbarker]

Mr. Harry Williamn, you are 60 years. You are getting old before growing up.

[dancerboy]

LEXBARKER, WELL SAID,may i add ' EMPTY VESSELS MAKE MOST NOISE' DANCERBOY

[Harry Williamn]

Maybe you are not able to comprehend what you read and you are simply seizing the opportunity to " mimic" the bunch of sappy Republicans who robbed the American people of a Great President ,Sen.John Kerry and VP John Edwards!

You just wanted to use the word " flip flop" ....great because when you are walking don't you hear the sound of your probably " drug melted brain " flip flooping around inside your head ?"

For your information I only askd the question about SURROGATE MOTHER HOOD I never,ever,gave my yeh or nay on the subject so read again!

Oh,by the way,THE TARGET REMAINS.

THE TOPIC IS : THE CAUSE OF GREED .....

[oecarb]

????????



You just wanted to use the word " flip flop" ....great because when you are walking don't you hear the sound of your probably " drug melted brain " flip flooping around inside your head ?"



Did you read the comments on the " SURROGATE MOTHER POST ",SIR, ????? That post was condemned by some of the very people who are now defending the " RENT A WOMB" !!!! ALAS! I AM TRULY FLABGERGASTED !!! IS IT FILP FLOP TIME HERE ? I THOUGHT " FLIP FLOPPING "WAS A MITT ROMNEY AND HILARY CLINTON THING ????


For your information I only askd the question about SURROGATE MOTHER HOOD I never,ever,gave my yeh or nay on the subject so read again!



Did you ever look at the post " Surrogate Motherhood ?" and see the response where some people refer to the post as " sickos " etc and now because it is in India it is suddenly okay ?

Sounds like somebody has an axe to grind. I repeat: there are two different questions.


In other words, forumites are being asked totally different questions - one at a personal level and the other at a general level. Yet you seem to be expecting the same answer.

What a person is willing to do is one thing. Whether they want to criticise someone else for doing it is another thing.

I, personally, wouldn't give you one of my kidneys but I won't object if someone else did. And, if you paid them, it is between you and them, as far as I am concerned.


I done talk, oui.

[lexbarker]

Mr. Williamn, you know a lot about Targets. For 2008 make it your TARGET to mature.

[sapodila]

With all due respects to my ELDERS............Harry Williams, When I grow up, I pray the Lord God in every possible name refered too, DOES NOT make me become as 'SMART' as you.............now you can take yuh "TARGET" and :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

[Harry Williamn]

Say what you will the TARGET REMAINS which is and still is:
DOES RELIGION OR CULTURE CAUSE GREED ?

[oecarb]

Say what you will the TARGET REMAINS which is and still is:
DOES RELIGION OR CULTURE CAUSE GREED ?

OK, I'll try again.

I can't see how religion can cause greed since most religions stress the importance of living a spiritual (not material) life.

In my view, certain cultures might place a high value on money and material things.

This might be caused (again in my view) by abject poverty where most people are scared of starving - as in most of the Third World.

Or it might be caused by Coropations pushing to sell their goods - like in the American Dream - which has produced rampant materialism in the USA.

Again, in my view, there is a difference between love of money (and the things money can buy), on the one hand, and storing up money which you will never use.

So I can understand a woman earning $25 a month renting her womb for $4,500 to buy a house.

But I can't understand Bill Gates with $57 billion still trying to make more money.

One seems to me like necessity. The other seems like greed to me.

.

[guyguy]

I'll take a stab at this question also.

In the philosophical realm, [within which this question falls], we must first distinguish between GREED and AVARICE. Though similar, there is a subtle but important distinction between them, and without our comprehension of this subtlety, it would only serve to further confuse.

Greed originated in Old English. Originally, it pertained to an insatiable appetite in reference to hunger. Avarice, on the other hand, is from Old French that carried with it a more negative connotation. It is referenced both to the desire to gain, and the desire to withhold. So, instead of just seeking to accumulate vast amounts of money, knowledge, possessions, etc., avarice not only creates a desire within the holder/owner to stockpile them, but more importantly, to then withhold them from those who might have need of them, even though the holder/owner has no need himself.

Greed is more benign since it's primarily associated with appetite and therefore it's nuanced as something that's uncontrollable. Greed specifically refers to food and therefore, to gluttony, whereas, avarice refers to money and possessions in particular. However, in the literature of medieval times, it was also used in regard to people who closely held on to their knowledge, power, authority, and/or information.

The upshot then is that Greed cannot be associated with religion nor culture. Avarice, on the other hand, can. Therefore, with this distinction between GREED and AVARICE in mind, we may wish to revisit the situation of these surrogate mothers, as well as all surrogate mothers, and determine through thorough analytical modeling, whether or not they are indeed greedy or avaricious.

The Ethics associated with surrogacy is fodder for a completely different Thread. Though it can easily be introduced in the current discussion, it will serve only to further confuse and to cloud the issue at hand. Of course, the question of Morality is equally apropos, but then we would be inflaming a hornet's nest since morality has no universal norm. What is moral for one person and/or culture may be diametrically opposite to another.
guyguy

[oecarb]

Guy,

From my copy of Websters (an American) dictionary:

Greed (n) - inordinate or rapacious longing, esp for wealth; desire for possessing or having more than one needs, esp money or property; avarice.

According to this dictionary, the two words can be used interchangeably except that, as you said, avarice refers specifically to money whereas greed can include desire or longing for wealth.

In the example in the TARGET, I don't see any evidence of greed. There is no-one with wealth rushing in to rent out their wombs - only real poor-arse people who catching their nennen. To me that is need - not greed.

.

[lexbarker]

I would describe greed as - Taking more (of anything) that is entiteled to you at the expence of others. If it is a case of survival then that is another story. I would not consider it as being selfish or hoarding nor having anyting to do with culture or religion. It has more to do with part of a human trait.
So if that woman wants to make a dozen children for a financial transaction she is bringing joy(s) to a couple(s) and at the same time making her life a little more comfortable.
Now, that is the TARGET. If not, then you have to DRAW it so we can get a better picture.

[Harry Williamn]

May I please,gentlemen,interject this question into the mix before I ever place what i have seen with respect the question.

How come in most religions which exist in TNT ( I do not knwo for sure in other countries except for the USA,Britatin and Canada) the relgious leaders are always extremely well off in comparison to some of the followers of the particular religion ?

[lexbarker]

They are well off because people have to pay good for their guilt.

[guyguy]

From Oxford ;

[b]greed
• noun - intense and selfish desire for food, wealth, or power.

avarice
• noun - extreme greed for wealth or material gain

I stated that philosophically there is a subtle difference. The etymology of the words, one being Old English and the other being Old French needs to be considered. Its usage has evolved [bastardized] and we tend to use both words interchangable but to be precise, we need to comprehend the root meaning in the historical and/or original context. That's THE TARGET and it REMAINS !!!. :D :D :D

[guyguy]

May I please,gentlemen,interject this question into the mix before I ever place what i have seen with respect the question.

How come in most religions which exist in TNT ( I do not knwo for sure in other countries except for the USA,Britatin and Canada) the relgious leaders are always extremely well off in comparison to some of the followers of the particular religion ?
This requires a separate Thread to discuss ... The Avarice of Religious Leaders ... and one well worth discussing too. I do not see it fitting the context of this discussion as it would be way off-topic. Let's ensure that THE TARGET REMAINS !!!, shall we?

[oecarb]

From Oxford ;

[b]greed
• noun - intense and selfish desire for food, wealth, or power.

avarice
• noun - extreme greed for wealth or material gain

I stated that philosophically there is a subtle difference. The etymology of the words, one being Old English and the other being Old French needs to be considered. Its usage has evolved [bastardized] and we tend to use both words interchangable but to be precise, we need to comprehend the root meaning in the historical and/or original context. That's THE TARGET and it REMAINS !!!. :D :D :D

Language changes according to usage, Guy. Words take on different meanings, new words are added and some fall into disuse.

When I was a kid, I remember reading them William books by Richmal Crompton. William every time William shout out somethinng, Crompton would say:

"So and so!", William ejaculated. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Then you had all them flim about gay bachelors and now the latest word in the English language is subprime

But the main thing is that today greed and avarice are interchangeable and both indicate a very strong or extreme longing for wealth.

In the TARGET there are people earning $25 a month and wanting what I would consider very modest sums. $4,500 is less than I paid for two leather couches for my livng room and less than a work colleague paid for a genuine Rolex watch. How can anyone say that was an extreme longing for wealth?

So, as far as I concern, the TARGET shouldn't mention as an example poor arse people catching their nennen and just wanting what a lot of other people consider normal - owning a little house, educating your kids etc. And I don't blame religion for greed.

As for religious leaders, there are greedy or avaricous people around and what easier way to get the wealth they crave than to tell gullible people that they shouldn't store up wealth in this life but they should pass it to their leaders?

If they couldn't use religion, they would use something else - like this fella in England who selling land on the moon for about $30 an acre and people buying it up.

Like I said, there are culures that push materialism, though.
.

[guyguy]

Agreed oecarb. Well said! THE TARGET REMAINS !!!

[KFCSpicy]

lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooo

why anyone of all yuh thought all yuh cud out b.s. de shidtheel target is beyond me. Leave it alone. let it talk to itself and see how many of your stress levels will go down.

Oecarb Guy Lex Sap ....give it up. Stick to the topic and doh rise to the off-centre ah mean target's bait.

Two different questions with glaringly obvious different circumstances and yet still no matter how anyone answers the target will still remain a lunatic :roll:

[KFCSpicy]

oecarb....You have made one of the finest and most cogent comparisons I have seen so far. I commend you on your brilliance.Well done!
She is ( I assume but not with certainty for she could be an Illegal alien in India from Nepal,Pakistan,Bangladesh etc ) an Indian Citizen born and raised in a Country which has spent tons of money developing nuclear weapons therefore we know India has money and is an economic force in the world and there are quite a few Indian Billionaires!

I on the other hand was born and raised in TNT.We have no nuclear weapons and we have no billionaires that I personally know of! We are not an economic and military power house like India. We are a baby nation compared with India a nation Thousands of years old.



ammm why the target doh make up he mind what he really want to say? :roll:

Re: 70 DAY SECURITY PLAN ???? WHAT A JOKE
by Harry Williamn on Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:27 pm

Sorry dancerman...please,we do not need your pittance ...we are not Jamaica we are TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO the OIL Rich Giant of the Caribbean....wake up and smell the money dancerman and come home and we will hire you if you have the skills which you probably have and as for research ....can you all pump one BILLION dollars a year into our economy ?

I do not think so because we are in the BILLIONAIRES CLUB dancer YOU do some research. I do not need to do any research I am in the middle of it all and this country is SUPER rich and what we need to do is ; :shock:

it in brown as it is a pile of dung he talking as per usual. Strangely he does start off sounding normal then he does quickly start to disintegrate and go off into tangents :roll:

[sapodila]

ammmmmmm.....uh.....never mind!