What is sophistication?

[serenity]

A friend of mine refuses to consider a pretty, pleasant girl who's crazy about him, bec according to him, she lacks a certain 'sophistication'. (Yes, meh friend is a snob who will spend his life alone.)

BUt he's not the first person I have heard dismissed the possibility of a relationship on these grounds. And the word usually comes up when one lists desirable traits in a mate (guilty). So is it on your list? What do u mean when u say sophistication?

Is sophistication the type of facade that puts on for the world? Is it a love and appreciation of everything foreign? Is there an underlying implication that a love and appreciation of local is backward?

[deathwinger]

I think it has to do with a colonial mentality instilled in us. Foreign is better, the more attune you are to it, the more sophisticated you are. Even if it means intertwining it with your own culture.

[Falcon]

Who said sophisticated equals foreign? And who said most things 'local' are a better quality that 'foreign' anyway. Get beyond a petty jealousy and it's all perspective I think.

Sophistication would comprise a certain personal list of things that you think you require for a certain quality of life. While this too is a normal curve, two individuals may differ in their assessment of what is sophisticated. For instance, I think plastic plants and hanging stuff from rearview mirrors are two very unsophisticated indicators....for me!

Deathwinger, while I am the first one in line to champion charting a course for independent thinking, there is such a degenerative potential when you try to be 10000000% anti-colonial- suddenly you accept mediocrity because it's 'local'.

[peanut]

Serene when I think of the word sophistication, I think personal traits and these words come to mind.

worldly-wise, worldly, experienced, seasoned, suave, cultured, polished, refined, elegant, stylish, cosmopolitan, blasé.

[BW]

'Sophistication' is the kind of dotishness that makes people pull out knife and fork to eat roti.

I agree with DW. Most of what passes for "sophistication" down here is just imitation of foreign culture, nothing more.

[Falcon]

'Sophistication' is the kind of dotishness that makes people pull out knife and fork to eat roti. .
Of course NOT. If they think that's sophisticated then they are wrong. You can't suddenly perpetuate the same blatantly wrong interpretation!?


I agree with DW. Most of what passes for "sophistication" down here is just imitation of foreign culture, nothing more. I agree with this too. With my provisos mentioned.

[Sirius]

A girl can be pleasant and pretty, and still not be sophisticated - and this has nothing to do with being snobbish or going after 'foreign'. Let me try to explain.

Someone who is not your average simpleton. Someone "sophisticated" might have an eye for a good book or well directed film or might appreciate many different styles of music by looking for what makes each piece stand out. It might be someone who likes to spend a certain amount of time researching various topics and actively trying to discover more about life. Someone who doesn't just live day-to-day with whatever happens to fall their way without question. Someone who is well versed in many areas of discussion.

There are many people who are very physically attractive and very pleasant to deal with, yet at the end of the day they turn out to be just drop-dead boring. To me, having a sophisticated demeanor is what makes them interesting to deal with over the long term. Such people also often seem to be in the minority. It's not snobbish; it's just some people need more than the superficial to be happy.

[BW]

'Sophistication' is the kind of dotishness that makes people pull out knife and fork to eat roti. .
Of course NOT. If they think that's sophisticated then they are wrong. You can't suddenly perpetuate the same blatantly wrong interpretation!?

I was dealing with 'sophistication' as a social construct. One which is often, unfortunately, given precedence over little things, like common sense.

People need to stop worrying about labels. Sure, being "backward" might not sound nice, but if that's who you are, then roll with it.

[KFCSpicy]

Hmmmm

Interesting thread.

I have read the 8 posts and i don't agree with the suggested meaning of what sophistication or being sophisticated is. First of all it is not a cultural thing, nor a local or foreign thing. To me it's about having certain traits that allow u to be acceptable on all or many levels. It stems from being able to not just read, but retain and quote in appropriate contexts, having discussions on many varied topics, on your ability to be polite, eat with your hands and not yuh foot (cause like it or not there are etiquette and social rules to adhere to worldwide), also to be able to appreciate music and art on so many levels, it means being many things but none of them has to do with the foreigners or the locals. To someone out there we are foreigners too so what does that imply?

I decided to see what the dictionary had to say about the word cause u can't escape the true meaning of a word just because it has been corrupted in sentences over the years.

This is from the Cambridge Dictionary:

sophisticated
adjective
1 having a good understanding of the way people behave and/or a good knowledge of culture and fashion:
She was slim, svelte and sophisticated.
I don't suppose I have any books that would suit your sophisticated tastes.
He was older than me and from London and I thought him very sophisticated.

2 clever in a complicated way and therefore able to do complicated tasks:
I think a more sophisticated approach is needed to solve this problem.
These are among the most sophisticated weapons in the world.

sophistication
noun [U]
Her sophistication is evident from the way she dresses.
The sophistication of computers is increasing as their size decreases.

sophisticate
noun [C] FORMAL
a person who is sophisticated

This is from the Oxford Dictionary:

Sophisticate
• verb 1 - make more discerning and aware of complex issues through education or experience.
2 - make more complex or refined.

ORIGIN Latin sophisticare ‘tamper with’, from sophisticus ‘sophistic’.

[peanut]

Shucks ... then I am very sophisticated .. I knew I was right :P

[sylvestter]

i think people need to have a connection other than physical attraction for a relationship. you could sleep with anybody, but if you're going to date someone you need to have something in common with that person. clearly this girl does not cut it in that regard, and that's why he probably thinks she lacks sophistication...

[KFCSpicy]

maybe to him her lack of sophistication is that she wears too much gold jewellery or too much make-up or that she lives in a certain area where he would never consider sophisticates to come from or her pedigree is not up to his or his friends standards?

who knows, in the end u can easily summaris whether a person is putting on airs or they simply don't have another way to say that he just eh feeling she beyond the obvious.

either way most people have their own ideas of what is or is not sophisticated. ;)

[sapodila]

Seren........... sorry tuh say but yuh fren looking for a gyul dat S@#+s ice cream in a cone!

Hey thanks ...........K! :)

[sheppy]

Sophistication....class...broughtupsy....cultured. ....educated.....

These all tend to be used synonimously to describe some general traits....while nothing is wrong with some one who doesn't possess one or all of those things above......for some people it is just desired generally to be had in common.

Will you take it upon yourself to try to 'sophisticate' a potential mate?
correct d green verb an dem?
go to musicals and plays ....at the sight of your date in flip flops and a throw back the phantom of the opera would turn in his grave...
wine and cheese establishments :? "oh waiter...more vino please"

nuthing wrong wit dating someone with similar upbringing as you...just don't look down your nose at others who may not have been 'as fortunate'

[Solachica]

'Sophistication' is the kind of dotishness that makes people pull out knife and fork to eat roti. .
i know people who think they sophisticated becos they do this :lol:
I think many people who want to bring abt an air of spohistication tend to come across as snobbish.

who want to see me as unsophisticated then thts them...i wud continue sitting on the ground etc becos I making myself more comfortable in my environment :lol: wearing a coverall and work boots can be seen as unsophisticated eh...but :lol: :mrgreen:

[Chicabonita]

A girl can be pleasant and pretty, and still not be sophisticated - and this has nothing to do with being snobbish or going after 'foreign'. Let me try to explain.

Someone who is not your average simpleton. Someone "sophisticated" might have an eye for a good book or well directed film or might appreciate many different styles of music by looking for what makes each piece stand out. It might be someone who likes to spend a certain amount of time researching various topics and actively trying to discover more about life. Someone who doesn't just live day-to-day with whatever happens to fall their way without question. Someone who is well versed in many areas of discussion.

There are many people who are very physically attractive and very pleasant to deal with, yet at the end of the day they turn out to be just drop-dead boring. To me, having a sophisticated demeanor is what makes them interesting to deal with over the long term. Such people also often seem to be in the minority. It's not snobbish; it's just some people need more than the superficial to be happy.

Exactly my thoughts. Also, when I think about the word sophistication I think in a person with "class".

[serenity]

Sophistication is linked to being cultured (and who's culture?) rather than being classy. One may be classy in their behaviour but not be sophisticated, which I think is related to one's knowlege and comfort with certain worldly things.

For example wine. I dont know much about wine and despite Sheppy's best advice I couldnt find any that actually tasted good (to me). So I've decided I'm not a wine person, or an alcohol person for that matter. Does my lack of wine knowlege or inability to appreciate a 'fine' wine makes me less sophisticated? Does my preference of a good curry goat to sushi (much to syl's disapproval) impact on my sophistication rating?

[Falcon]

no and no

[serenity]

no and no

Are u suggesting therefore that sophistication is related soley to behaviour and bearing?

[Falcon]

No, I meant in those two situations cited. That does not mean preference doesn't come into it. Of course it will. But these above are based on culture and therefore there isn't really a comparison between a goat culture and a sushi culture. You have have elements of sophistication which run the same right across the cultures....

[KFCSpicy]

I think here, it's not whether you liked the wine or not or the goat to sushi...to me you were sophisticated enuff to try them and decide that you are not a lover of either wines or liquor and you have a pref to curry over sushi. Unsophistication can be taken to mean that one is truly ignorant of things which are there to be sampled and learn (not nec. food or wines) but anything that is enlightening and worth it's weight in gold in knowledge. (not sure this all came out right but I hope you all get my gist) :(

[Falcon]

perfectly put.

[KFCSpicy]

coming from you Falcon I consider that a compliment. :)

Thank you.

[KFCSpicy]

Is it facetious of me to think of myself as sophisticated?

Ah mean... I doh smoke but I did try the outed ends of my dad's cigs when I was pre teen and chose to not practise it cause I simply did not like the taste. I am not a fan of liquor but there are some (like ports, BLue Nun :oops: White Zinfandels) that i really like the taste of but not to the extreme of needing to have them all the time.

I read incessantly but I can't quote Freud. I appreciate art and music and history but I have not done all the museums of London or Europe as yet, I don't go to plays but I can appreciate them.

So...am I misleading in saying that Iam a sophisticate? Or just an enjoyer of what life has to offer? :?

[sheppy]

I'm not sure I would consider you sophisticaed by that definition KFC. I would say cultured, well read, free-spirited even.

Sophistication i reserve to those that stand out from the pack. Your ability to appreciate 'the finer things in life' may just be a consequence of sophistication, but not the definition. It is a state of mind (like yuh doh have to have dread to be rasta) driving your philosophies, actions, manner of walk, talk, speak, eat . Ofcourse it must mean a proven extensive knowledge of other cultures, religions and practices from neichi to deepak to freud to Sun Tzu and bahai to hare krishna. and the ability to assimilate each independantly identifying those bits and pieces that speak to you (all the while updating your philosophies) and critiquing the others.

[sheppy]

p.s Serenity...yuh still cyah find a good wine? *shakes head*

[serenity]

:lol: No Sheppy, and ah does still go to de ppl place.... :D

[KFCSpicy]

well isn't that being well versed in world knowledge and not sophistication? I think maybe for all of us it's a combo of all these things. Not eating wid yuh foot, during de company dinner, belching and farting in public and reall scratching yuh ballz and blowing snat is ewwww but what if the person that did all of this was well versed in all that you mentioned in your post Shep?

So sophitication means one step up from just being knowlegeable it means manners, taste, breeding, social training.

[sheppy]

well i didn't mean knowledge was exclusively the definition. I think it is a part of it. I guess knowledge by itself without a demonstrable ability to implement it is useless.