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snowbird
10-16-2010, 11:38 AM
Hope allyuh hooligans get the message.... Dey eh joking.


source: Trinidad Express http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/WOMAN_COP_KILLS_2_BANDITS-105090319.html

WOMAN COP KILLS 2 BANDITS
2 female bandits shot dead

..... DRAMA unfolded in Tunapuna yesterday as two women, identified as robbery suspects, were shot and killed by a policewoman assigned to the Tunapuna/Piarco Regional Corporation Municipal Police. The officer shot the women after she responded to a robbery at the Tunapuna Market......

..... Several vendors at the market who spoke with the Express after the incident, said the shooting was justified. The vendors said St Louis repeatedly called on the suspect in the car to surrender and stop their vehicle, but the women ignored the calls......



...... Up to late yesterday, WPC St Louis was being treated by a psychologist, police said. Minutes after the shooting, St Louis broke down in tears and had to be consoled by a male colleague who was on duty with her. .....

Chicabonita
10-16-2010, 12:41 PM
What are the laws in Trinidad concerning a police officer shooting a bandit that apparently did not shoot first? First of all, I am not trying to create a controversy here eh just curious on what the LAW has to say about it.

shield_2006
10-16-2010, 01:40 PM
Thing is the chorus of--it good and they deserve to dead start----BUT-- was this a justified shooting? Most Police Departments have a deadly force policy but here we have a deadly force.

This-to my layman view was unjustified. As I said in another thread--when the kit for Police in Trinidad is made up of --One 9 MM Semi Automatic Pistol--period--then it is quite likely this will be a normal outcome. What about back up and response units and so on. Most Police only have their cell phone and ah sure some ah dem doh have no money on it. While public outrage will justify this--this hardly should be the the usual outcome.


Leh me take a page from chica-- I do not condone the young bandits actions nor do I suggest that the Police should not take action---BIT--was this the only option available.

bigzack
10-16-2010, 02:05 PM
What are the laws in Trinidad concerning a police officer shooting a bandit that apparently did not shoot first? First of all, I am not trying to create a controversy here eh just curious on what the LAW has to say about it.

There is no law that I know of, "concerning a police officer shooting a bandit that apparently did not shoot first".

If you read all three dailies, you may arrive at three different conclusions regarding this shooting.

I read Newsday's first. It seemed to be more comprehensive than the other two.

If Newsday's account is true, then this Municipal WPC deserve the highest honor in the land.

You see, in most police departments, and this is also true of the TTPS, a police officer must be of the opinion that his or her life, or the lives of the general public is in danger, before acting with deadly force.

Now you have to remember that a car is probably a more dangerous weapon than a gun.

A car purposely driven down the wrong way on a one way street is worse.

A car driven by criminals dong the wrong way of a one way street, trying to get away from a crime, and having already dragged the victim of the crime for about 30 feet, is even "worserer".

This WPC had to be acting out of fear, and not revenge.

One may say that if the criminals ignored her command to stop, she could have shot out the tyres.

I have been to the La Seiva range on many occasions for shooting practice.

I never see a replica of a tyre yet, dragged across the range, for police to shoot at.

It is always an image representing the upper torso of a human being.

Solachica
10-16-2010, 03:34 PM
She real have aim. 2 shots and 2 dead.

vaio
10-16-2010, 06:12 PM
She real have aim. 2 shots and 2 dead.

yea, talk about accuracy lol

bigzack
10-17-2010, 10:19 AM
yea, talk about accuracy lol

Talk about being economical.

Bullets cost money, yuh know.

shield_2006
10-17-2010, 10:24 AM
You have to know the range and the tactical scenario to asses the quality of the shooting.

I shoot with police on range already and they doh practice at all--da is why they have them GALIL.

zack--what is disturbing is the circumstances unfolding daily with changes as we go along. You see the article where in the first two paragraphs was a gun and in the last two was something resembling a gun.


It is unfortunate that in the middle;e of this blood lust for balance anything is acceptable. This is not policing--this is disorder.

snowbird
10-17-2010, 11:09 AM
It would appear that the Police Officer did the best ..... with what she had ....if is obvious from her reaction after ..... she was not out for blood.

... All the same, she saved the T&T Judicial System and the taxpayers a ton of money..... she also sent a message to other Hooligans out there ....."don't mess with Police" ....she may not have intended it.... but she is speaking to them in a language that they understand.

Sly1
10-17-2010, 11:40 AM
This is one Police Officer I would want by my side and in my neighbourhood.

dancerboy
10-17-2010, 02:54 PM
I have not heard anything from our esteemed police commissioner ! Things are different in T&T COP. In CANADA she might have had a lot of questions to answer. In T&T the population is solidly behind her.


DANCERBOY

dancerboy
10-17-2010, 03:02 PM
It's amazing how so many people who never owned a gun, shot one,or 'FAR LESS' kill someone, singing praises for this Police Woman. Well, i am sure this will haunt her for the rest of her life. There aren't too many police officers who have to shot a criminal in his/her career, 'FAR LESS' kill one. So all of you who praising her now; i hope if she doesn't handle this well, all you will contribute, and offer whatever help she will need. She is only 28 yrs, she probably does, or will have children. She will have to explain this to them.


DANCERBOY

Chicabonita
10-17-2010, 04:29 PM
It's amazing how so many people who never owned a gun, shot one,or 'FAR LESS' kill someone, singing praises for this Police Woman. Well, i am sure this will haunt her for the rest of her life. There aren't too many police officers who have to shot a criminal in his/her career, 'FAR LESS' kill one. So all of you who praising her now; i hope if she doesn't handle this well, all you will contribute, and offer whatever help she will need. She is only 28 yrs, she probably does, or will have children. She will have to explain this to them.


DANCERBOY

She is seeing a psychologist. She broke in tears after the incident (reported by newspapers).

snowbird
10-17-2010, 04:44 PM
It's amazing how so many people who never owned a gun, shot one,or 'FAR LESS' kill someone, singing praises for this Police Woman. Well, i am sure this will haunt her for the rest of her life. There aren't too many police officers who have to shot a criminal in his/her career, 'FAR LESS' kill one. So all of you who praising her now; i hope if she doesn't handle this well, all you will contribute, and offer whatever help she will need. She is only 28 yrs, she probably does, or will have children. She will have to explain this to them.


DANCERBOY

Comes with the territory DB while it is not something to 'look forward to' ..... if you are an Officer you know there will be the 'possibility' that at some time in your career you will have to 'pull that trigger' ...... you also know that when you 'pull that trigger' there is a possibility that someone may be killed.

I feel for her, but like I said..... it goes with the territory..... all she has to explain to her children ..... or anyone else is ..... she was doing the job she was trained to do..... no shame or guilt in that.

shield_2006
10-17-2010, 04:50 PM
easy like Sunday morning---at least on ttonline.

bigzack
10-17-2010, 05:38 PM
Comes with the territory DB while it is not something to 'look forward to' ..... if you are an Officer you know there will be the 'possibility' that at some time in your career you will have to 'pull that trigger' ...... you also know that when you 'pull that trigger' there is a possibility that someone may be killed.

I feel for her, but like I said..... it goes with the territory..... all she has to explain to her children ..... or anyone else is ..... she was doing the job she was trained to do..... no shame or guilt in that.

Some ah we really living in fantasy land yuh know.

To this day, I does still dream, and sometimes see the faces of the CID detail who took part in the killing of 5 robbers, who had earlier held up a bank in POS.

Dem fellas look like dey had seen several ghosts.

There was no joy and high fiving. There were no psychologists.

A deadly silence permeated the CID office on St.Vincent street that night.

Years later, I, and some of the detectives, still wondered if we could have done things differently.

And my job that day was to issue the guns.

I could remember the sunny day in the Croisee, when Son Johnson shot and killed Arnim, the captain of East Side Symphony.

There was a young patrol officer who was nearby, and he could have taken out Son Johnson.

He panicked. He froze.

When he returned off patrol, he asked for a copy book page.

He wrote on that page, "I RESIGN".

He left San Juan station never to be seen, or heard from again.

This thing ent taking a slinging shot and knocking down bottles off ah wall.

This is serious business.

snowbird
10-17-2010, 06:50 PM
.... This is serious business......

and that job is not for everyone..... certainly not for any ..... 'wuuss'.

Yes, taking a life is not easy ...... and it is made even harder when others in society insist that .... there were other options...... Thing is ...... you would have made the best possible decision you had to make.... in an instant...... and unlike us, the woman Officer didn't have days to examine the situation.

... I wonder if those 'late criminals' has days to consider what they were doing? and if they did consider it for days..... I am betting getting dead wasn't one of the possibilities.... Well now all surviving criminals have one more possibility to consider..... let's see if they are willing to accept this latest 'consequence' of the crime now.

shield_2006
10-17-2010, 08:31 PM
zack--ah dont tink she get the point at all.

bigzack
10-17-2010, 10:22 PM
zack--ah dont tink she get the point at all.

Shield

And this line proves it.


.... This is serious business......

and that job is not for everyone..... certainly not for any ..... 'wuuss'.

Policing is not for everyone, as the good lady says.

So perhaps, one day we may be lucky to get Robots to do the job, instead of living, breathing, human beings, with feelings and conciences.

Most officers join the TTPS between the ages of 18 and 21 years old.

When you graduate from the academy, you often feel that you is Rambo.

Then, as you go out into the out stations, you develop a bond with the people that you are supposed to "protect and serve".

As you get older, get married, and have children, the Ramboesque persona is quickly dropped from your psychological repertoire, as you seek to become a model wife, husband, father, mother, and a generally productive member of your community. Sometimes, the job of official guardian and sheriff of your little street, lane, or track, falls upon you, without you even knowing it.

There is a saying in the Police Service, "Once a police, twice a civilian".

The officers that readjusts fully back to civilian life, are the ones who carry out their duties with that credo in mind, each and every day.

One day, that young woman police officer may return to being a civilian, where she will be expected to be a "human being" again.

To say that a human being is a "wuss" for having feelings, after killing another human being, is a preposterous statement.

vaio
10-18-2010, 07:38 AM
granny say is bad company killed Latoya:

THE grandmother of one of the two women killed by a female police officer in Tunapuna on Friday said yesterday the bad company she kept in recent time led to her death.

"That girl had good education. She grow up in the church, you know, but she just followed bad, bad company. Sometimes she would go out and not come back until about 1, 2, 3 o'clock in the morning," Vera Williams said of her granddaughter, La Toya Mars, while being interviewed at her home in Factory Road, Diego Martin.http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Bad_company_killed_La_Toya-105152199.html

vaio
10-18-2010, 07:39 AM
meanwhile, two more bandits killed:

JUST over a day after a woman police constable shot and killed two women, said to be robbery suspects in Tunapuna, police killed two men minutes after they had allegedly robbed a Princes Town bar on Saturday night. http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/2_more__bandits_slain-105152229.html

Solachica
10-18-2010, 07:52 AM
A woman bounce down 2 police officers in Freeport. One died and one in hospital

vaio
10-18-2010, 07:56 AM
A woman bounce down 2 police officers in Freeport. One died and one in hospital

The Police officer tht died is my mom's cousin, poor guy was planning to get married :(

Solachica
10-18-2010, 07:58 AM
Sorry :(

I wonder if they going charge tht woman who killed him. Wht speed she was going if she did lose control and hit them to kill.

vaio
10-18-2010, 07:59 AM
Newspapers say tht she was speeding and unaware tht there were road works ongoing. Hopefully she gets charged and make a jail yes :mad:

Sirius
10-18-2010, 09:01 AM
I'm sorry to hear that Vaio. I have to put another angle on this though.

I was on the southbound yesterday at Freeport - not at the time of the incident but earlier when they were moving equipment at the same spot. Those same two officers walked out like nobody business when the traffic was almost on top of them. If you see screeching tires. I nearly get lash from behind coming to a stop and I wasn't too far off from hitting the car in front either. There was no tailgating or excess speed going on. Just highway traffic forced to stand up on brakes pedals.

Having had that experience I'm not surprised reading this article and don't want to put one factor past the officers not taking due care in directing highway speed traffic. The thought did cross my mind at the time that it's a wonder the car in front didn't hit the police. Now I read about this in today's paper.

snowbird
10-18-2010, 09:49 AM
Shield

And this line proves it.



Policing is not for everyone, as the good lady says.

So perhaps, one day we may be lucky to get Robots to do the job, instead of living, breathing, human beings, with feelings and conciences.

Most officers join the TTPS between the ages of 18 and 21 years old.

When you graduate from the academy, you often feel that you is Rambo.

Then, as you go out into the out stations, you develop a bond with the people that you are supposed to "protect and serve".

As you get older, get married, and have children, the Ramboesque persona is quickly dropped from your psychological repertoire, as you seek to become a model wife, husband, father, mother, and a generally productive member of your community. Sometimes, the job of official guardian and sheriff of your little street, lane, or track, falls upon you, without you even knowing it.

There is a saying in the Police Service, "Once a police, twice a civilian".

The officers that readjusts fully back to civilian life, are the ones who carry out their duties with that credo in mind, each and every day.

One day, that young woman police officer may return to being a civilian, where she will be expected to be a "human being" again.

To say that a human being is a "wuss" for having feelings, after killing another human being, is a preposterous statement.

BZ you people are the ones 'questioning' the woman's judgement in shooting the criminals...... I am simply saying that if you have to 'second guess' everytime you are confronted by a criminal..... there would be very many dead police..... The woman was trained and acted 'based on her training' ..... and yes, as we all mature as we get older, we adjust our priorities....but does that include not making a 'sound procedual judgement'....because we won't be able to live with ourselves after? I don't see how this is applicable to a 'trained professional'.... Are you saying then that a Police Officer is incapable of ..... good judgement...... until they have gotten to stage three of your description of the process that one goes through as a Police Officer? If this is the case.....why are they putting Officers who are yet to 'evolve' into caring, responsible people onto the 'front lines'....... you make it sound like these positions are best served by 'older police'...... How would you feel if in your first days/ years on the Force you were told..... you eh ready for patrol yet.....even after all of your training? What does it say of your training? At what point do you become a 'Human Being'?

Oh and my 'wuss' reference was not to the Officer in Question..... You may note from the name of the thread.... I think she did her job...Valiantly ...... I am referring to others who are implying ......that maybe she shouldn't have shot the bandits.....and especially those whose opinion is ..... she should have considered other factors like her own future peace of mind before pulling the trigger...... it is obvious in this case ..... the only thing that mattered to her was ..... doing the job she was trained to do.

snowbird
10-18-2010, 09:58 AM
Sorry about your relative Vaio.

BZ here is yet another report on what confronted that 'less than Human' Police Officer .... :(

source Trinidad Express http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Woman_cop_on_sick_leave_after_killing_bandits-105117769.html

Woman cop on sick leave after killing bandits
By Akile Simon
Story Created: Oct 16, 2010 at 11:43 PM ECT

(Story Updated: Oct 16, 2010 at 11:43 PM ECT )

WOMAN POLICE constable Patrice St Louis, the officer who shot and killed two suspected female bandits in Tunapuna on Friday afternoon, said she was left with little choice after one of the suspects pointed a gun at her on two occasions.

St Louis, who is assigned to the Municipal Police of the Tunapuna/Piarco Regional Corporation, has been sent on two weeks sick leave following the incident. Reports are that she has suffered serious psychological effects.

Minutes after the shooting, St Louis broke down in tears and had to be consoled by a male colleague who was on duty with her.

Two sisters of the dead women, Susan Frederick and La Toya Mars, yesterday, visited the Tunapuna Police Station and told officers they wanted to identify the women's bodies. Officers advised the relatives to go to the Forensic Science Centre tomorrow to do so

An autopsy is scheduled for Tuesday, police said.

In a statement given to detectives probing the incident, St Louis stated that even before one of the female suspected pointed a gun at her, the driver of the vehicle attempted to run her down at a car park near the Tunapuna market.

St Louis said she responded to a report that market vendor Andrea Amoroso, 26, was robbed of her bag containing $7,000. She said she arrived at a car park near the market and saw a fracas taking place between Amoroso and the suspects.

The 28-year-old officer said she called on the women to come out of the vehicle but they refused and instead the driver sped up the car in St Louis' direction, attempting to pin her onto a wall in the car park.

In her statement, St Louis said the female passenger pointed a gun at her but did not fire any shots before the driver sped off, dragging Amoroso who was partly inside the car.

Amoroso was attempting to stop the suspects who had reportedly stolen her bag with money, police said.

According to St Louis, she ran after the vehicle as it dragged Amoroso through traffic along the Eastern Main Road, and called out to the victim to let go of the car door.

Eventually Amoroso was thrown from the vehicle as Mars, the driver, attempted to escape by driving the white Nissan Sunny, licensed PAM 8680, northwards onto St Vincent Street, a one-way street which exits southwards onto the Eastern Main Road.

St Louis said she repeatedly called on the women to surrender. They ignored her calls and St Louis said Frederick again pointed an object resembling a firearm at her. It was at this point that St Louis fired two shots at the car as she believed her life and those of commuters, motorists and pedestrians in the area were in danger, since one of the suspects was armed with a gun and the other was operating a motor vehicle in a reckless manner.

She said after the shots were fired, Mars continued driving the car but crashed into a parked Peugeot motorcar at the corner of Sapodilla and St Vincent Streets.

Frederick was pronounced dead on arrival at the Eric Williams Medical Sciences Complex in Mt Hope after being taken there by police. She was shot in the upper left side of her body, while Mars was shot in the head and died behind the steering wheel of the vehicle.

The duo, police said, were yesterday identified as suspects involved in a robbery at a hair dressing salon in the Arouca district and a robbery at a casino in Curepe.

Officers said the victims were wanted for questioning by officers of the Northern, Central, Southern, Western and Eastern Divisions in connection with robberies and larceny.

St Louis has been highly commended by vendors for the action she took in the matter.

bigzack
10-18-2010, 10:49 AM
BZ you people are the ones 'questioning' the woman's judgement in shooting the criminals......

Snow

Ah know that since yuh living in Canada, all ah we does look alike.

Buh I is one of "you people" that commended the WPC, if the Newsday report was true.

I never questioned the woman's judgment at all...at all....at all.

bigzack
10-18-2010, 11:09 AM
Snow

Since Saturday 16th @ 2:15pm, I wrote the following post:


There is no law that I know of, "concerning a police officer shooting a bandit that apparently did not shoot first".

If you read all three dailies, you may arrive at three different conclusions regarding this shooting.

I read Newsday's first. It seemed to be more comprehensive than the other two.

If Newsday's account is true, then this Municipal WPC deserve the highest honor in the land.

You see, in most police departments, and this is also true of the TTPS, a police officer must be of the opinion that his or her life, or the lives of the general public is in danger, before acting with deadly force.

Now you have to remember that a car is probably a more dangerous weapon than a gun.

A car purposely driven down the wrong way on a one way street is worse.

A car driven by criminals dong the wrong way of a one way street, trying to get away from a crime, and having already dragged the victim of the crime for about 30 feet, is even "worserer".

This WPC had to be acting out of fear, and not revenge.

One may say that if the criminals ignored her command to stop, she could have shot out the tyres.

I have been to the La Seiva range on many occasions for shooting practice.

I never see a replica of a tyre yet, dragged across the range, for police to shoot at.

It is always an image representing the upper torso of a human being.

Where in that post did I question the WPC's judgement?

Anything that I have written since then, addresses the fact that for years to come, she will play this incident over, and over in her mind, and question herself as to whether she could have acted differently. Replaying a deadly shooting where you did the shooting, is a fact of life. To mention that fact, is not to question the WPC's judgement.

We, the rejoicers will go on with our life.

I guarantee you that this WPC is rejoicing less than any of us, especially those of us who cyar even cut off a fowl neck tuh put it in ah pot on Sunday, but we palancing, and high fiving, all over the place, as if the WPC juss lick dong two bowling balls, instead ah two human beings that were the authors and creators of their own demise.

Wayne
10-18-2010, 12:13 PM
Newspapers say tht she was speeding and unaware tht there were road works ongoing. Hopefully she gets charged and make a jail yes :mad:

Vehicular Homicide should be the charge.

First degree vehicular homicide is punishable by 3 to 15 years of imprisonment. If the accused had previously been declared a habitual violator, the range of punishment is five to twenty years, and at least one year of the sentence must be served.

The above penalties are based on US Law................I have no idea what it is in Trinidad.

dancerboy
10-18-2010, 12:13 PM
The Police officer tht died is my mom's cousin, poor guy was planning to get married :(

Accept my sympathy my friend.


DANCERBOY

Sirius
10-18-2010, 12:46 PM
Vehicular Homicide should be the charge.

First degree vehicular homicide is punishable by 3 to 15 years of imprisonment. If the accused had previously been declared a habitual violator, the range of punishment is five to twenty years, and at least one year of the sentence must be served.

The above penalties are based on US Law................I have no idea what it is in Trinidad.

I believe once it is clear the incident was an accident and it is determined she was not intoxicated or driving without a license or similar then the most she might get is vehicular manslaughter. Not sure what the penalty would be in that sort of situation.

Sirius
10-18-2010, 12:52 PM
I never put in my $0.02 on the original thread topic:

First off it is good to see that the police action was quick and decisive. Kudos. I would like to think that with better police presence and action on the woman's past actions the shooting would not have had to take place. As it is, it did. I do not think we can question the WPC's actions without knowing all the facts. I would like to think the practice is to shoot out the vehicle's tires rather then the driver but depending on the situation it may have been necessary.

Let the appropriate investigations take their course and bear in mind that at the end of the day, the police were confronted with an escaping suspect and did what was felt was needed in the situation. Whether it was appropriate or not will be determined in due course.

vaio
10-18-2010, 12:55 PM
thanx all, really tragic :(

The CoP and other officials visited the relatives yesterday. Seems as though that woman was speeding, she hit him and smashed him into a truck. His parents can barely recognize his face and both legs severed :(

bigzack
10-18-2010, 01:38 PM
thanx all, really tragic :(

The CoP and other officials visited the relatives yesterday. Seems as though that woman was speeding, she hit him and smashed him into a truck. His parents can barely recognize his face and both legs severed :(

I don't think that she was speeding.

She was flying.

http://www.newsday.co.tt/galeria/2010-10-18-3-1a_wendy_timothy_3.17.jpg
Fatal drive: The Lexus motor vehicle which crashed into two police officers on the Solomon Hochoy Highway. One officer is dead and the other is in critical condition.
Author: Lincoln Holder

snowbird
10-18-2010, 02:03 PM
I never put in my $0.02 on the original thread topic:

First off it is good to see that the police action was quick and decisive. Kudos. I would like to think that with better police presence and action on the woman's past actions the shooting would not have had to take place. As it is, it did. I do not think we can question the WPC's actions without knowing all the facts. I would like to think the practice is to shoot out the vehicle's tires rather then the driver but depending on the situation it may have been necessary.

Let the appropriate investigations take their course and bear in mind that at the end of the day, the police were confronted with an escaping suspect and did what was felt was needed in the situation. Whether it was appropriate or not will be determined in due course.



As per the Ex-Police man on the forum....

One may say that if the criminals ignored her command to stop, she could have shot out the tyres.

I have been to the La Seiva range on many occasions for shooting practice.

I never see a replica of a tyre yet, dragged across the range, for police to shoot at.

It is always an image representing the upper torso of a human being.

Unless the information he is sharing is 'dated' it would appear that 'tire shooting' is not part of the training...... so as I have repeatedly stated......."She did what she was trained to do".

Solachica
10-18-2010, 02:04 PM
And she walked away with not a scratch? Police killer :o

JPersad
10-18-2010, 06:36 PM
The Police officer tht died is my mom's cousin, poor guy was planning to get married :(

He was also my wife's cousin.Her parents flew into Trinidad this morning .
He was a decent young man .