Illegal Firearms

[Satya]

my god, I listening to the power drive here and a man giving a recount of getting robbed this morning. He say the man pack up all he belongings, pack it in the wife car and drive away and he thief some juice box. No gloves, and no mask(talk about bold face) I cannot even imagine. The robber stay for half an hour. No fingerprints were found at the scene.

So how do you feel about owning a firearm. Is it at the stage that you are considering getting a gun? Do you think citizens should not be allowed to bear arms? That is the argument being made by Clevion Raphael and Anil Roberts. How do you feel?

[vaio]

citizens shld be allowed to bear arms.....so tht they can try to protect themselves when the law isn't

[Solachica]

Don't think firearm going to solve anything.

[Sumana]

I think people like Anil Roberts shouldn't be allowed to hold firearms.
Most other citizens..ok but after you go through some kind of serious psychological evaluation

[dancerboy]

I am an advocate for 'upstanding' citizens to be given permits to carry a gun. DANCERBOY

[skl]

all owning a gun means is that when bandits rob you they stealing your gun too.

seriously just how many stories have you heard from the good ol USA of people successfully defending themselves with guns ?

more often that not when you get robbed the bandit already have he gun pointed at you so you have no chance to get your own out.

[KFCSpicy]

^^^Thank you SKL and Sumana.

Geez all yuh really want people like Trinisuckz wid a firearm? Who go shoot first and ask questions later? Or is this just another effect of not caring. :roll:

[vaio]

well the point of a psychological evaluation does make a lot of sense.....but ppl like TS shld be in the looney bin......

[KFCSpicy]

lol :D

[vaio]

:oops:

[Falcon]

no guns for civilians!

[vaio]

^^why do you say that Falcon???...aren't we entitled to protect ourselves if the authorities aint..... :|

[KFCSpicy]

the authourities trained to and u ent. so I agree wid Falco. CAuse me eh want no misguided vigilante murdering meh family. :( :shock:

[vaio]

the ppl doin the murderin is the bandits who wld get the guns are any street corner...wid meh license firearm, i'll use it if the need arises to protect my family...and i ent shootin to disarm or injure.....since they cld come back for me.....

[KFCSpicy]

what street corner is dat Vaio? :?

And who doing de selling?

Ah tired tell all yuh is not de "bandits" such a long time term...dat travelling abroad and buying guns and ammo, so de blame is not theres alone.

[vaio]

the guns comin from abroad....being smuggled into the country by the ones with the money....and they distributin to those areas where gangs are prevalent....anybody can get a gun these days....and i mean anybody.....

[KFCSpicy]

den send some for meh along wid meh soca cds
;)

[vaio]

:twisted: talk to ali he does know where to buy it. :D ...and i ent like soca so i ent buyin it...

[KFCSpicy]

traitor :o

[vaio]

steups.....i'd much quicker buy a gun :twisted:

[Falcon]

Arming private citizens will never reduce crime, in fact crime will increase. It sounds like a nice short term cure-all, but if you have lived in a society where citizens aren't armed, a la KFC, you'd understand what a dangerous thing an armed population represents. The concept about having a gun to protect yourself against a bandit is most misunderstood.

The police are the ones to disarm criminals. So while they are doing this, are we proposing to flood the market further? And in a situation like T&T, where contacts rule? NO WAY!! :shock:

[KFCSpicy]

Securityyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy :o

[vaio]

Arming private citizens will never reduce crime, in fact crime will increase. It sounds like a nice short term cure-all, but if you have lived in a society where citizens aren't armed, a la KFC, you'd understand what a dangerous thing an armed population represents. The concept about having a gun to protect yourself against a bandit is most misunderstood.

The police are the ones to disarm criminals. So while they are doing this, are we proposing to flood the market further? And in a situation like T&T, where contacts rule? NO WAY!! :shock:


but when you try to call them the following happens:
1. you hardly ever get through
2. they doh have police at the stations to come
3. if there are police they don't have vehicles
4. when they come is either the next day or when yuh yuh family raped, injured, robbed, badly beaten or worse yet.....yuh dead

so when they are not there what then...... :?:

[Falcon]

I understand that the policing leaves a lot to be desired.
But the solution is to fix THAT, and not make it even worse for the presently sub-standard law enforcement.

How many people actually call-in tips and leads?

[KFCSpicy]

nan ah one ah dem Falcs. so as I keep saying on many threads...the faults of our nation lies with the nationals.

[vaio]

...when you call in tips esp those where incentives are offered...you have to go to the bank and give them your id card to collect your money....you don't even know who teh banker will tell your name...

and that no *69 crap....who will trust that??? T&T is too small and everybody know everybody...no one wants to risk being killed...

and when police visit and ask questions ppl to afraid that they too will get killed or their family....

some of them police too corupt and so is the entire judicial system......

[Sly1]

"Satya
So how do you feel about owning a firearm. Is it at the stage that you are considering getting a gun? Do you think citizens should not be allowed to bear arms? Satya "

An armed citizenry is a safe place.

[Satya]

For the people that are saying that the police should be in charge of protecting people. Nobody is disputing that, that is why we pay them a salary etc, and EVRYBODY knows there are flawed procedures and practically systematic corruption....but while these things that SHOULD be fixed go on ignored what joe blow supposed to do in the mean time? I think we all can agree that the police system is wildly inefficient. Period. i listening to people on the radio and is one after the other first hand accounts of rape, robbery etc, and police misconduct.

How is that the citizen's responsibility to fix? What the man in the market selling he goods supposed to do while things that SHOULD happen with the police force and judicial system not happening. This is a dire situation. You averaging practically a murder a DAY in Trinidad, for a place this size that is a ghastly figure. What is the solution for people RIGHT NOW. People eh have time for Martin Joseph to catch heself and admit he over he head.

[kemist]

I understand that the policing leaves a lot to be desired.
But the solution is to fix THAT, and not make it even worse for the presently sub-standard law enforcement.

How many people actually call-in tips and leads?


very true.
now lets hope the powers that be can also recognize there is a problem and make a fair attempt to solve it.
Now normally, I am for allowing citizens to acquire legal firearms but under certain conditions, like vaio pointed out, regular psych evaluations. Also compulsory regular practise/training and i dont just mean going to the firing range once a month.

But since, (as falcon said, in trinidad contacts rule), there may be ways for some to get around those conditions as i pointed out, therefore arming the t&t population will do more harm than good.
We can only compare this would-be situation to countries that currently allow citizens to be armed. At least now we can say that in our society, there havent been any accidental shootings in the home involving guns and kids as in the US. We dont yet have psychos going into malls and schools shooting up de place. We dont have many incidents where someone get kill by a stray bullet. I know some would argue that people kill people, not guns- but why make it convenient? A gun gives the average joe a sense of having power, which in turn can corrupt. Look at how many crimes of passion are committed using cutlasses by ordinary citizens. At least some victims have a chance of survival after getting chop, but what if those psychologically unstable people had guns instead of cutlasses?

And for those of you who own buisnesses and import goods, you would know how to 'get around' paying the full custom duties on your containers. So imagine if we start to import guns legally on a commercial scale, how much would go unaccounted for and end up in the wrong hands?

[KFCSpicy]

thank you kemist for throwing that perspective into the works. but watch how they go disregard that little problem and still advocate gun ownership as a must.

[Satya]

nobody is suggesting that gun ownership is without its problems, nobody is saying it will necessarily solve crime. Though again I ask what is the immediate solution? How is a man supposed to have any comfort at night ? These bandits take boldfaceness to a whole new level. "hold on we go fix it" eh making nobody sleep any sounder at night.

[KFCSpicy]

true satya no one here disagrees with yuh on de futility of it all but what i think most people are saying is before they arm everyone they need some strict measures about gun control and licensing. like showing yuh licence or passport everytime u buy one and gun shops logging details of the buyers and recording serial numbers of bullets and guns as well and taking a photo or having cameras in their shops that take pics of the buyers and their being an age limit and a finger print log and also most importantly psych evaluation by an independant un biased panel and serious training.

adverts explaining these measures and adverts advocating the pros and cons of gun ownership. people does have kids falling off the balcony in apartments what u want to bet accidental deaths by guns in homes go be another factor.

all because we doh know how to not live like animals.

[Sumana]

I understand that the policing leaves a lot to be desired.
But the solution is to fix THAT, and not make it even worse for the presently sub-standard law enforcement.

How many people actually call-in tips and leads?


yunno what...those tip lines aren't secure - personal experience

[Falcon]

is it? Or is that a convenient urban legend?

Then what about writing an anon letter? Calling from a payphone?

[Falcon]

nobody is suggesting that gun ownership is without its problems, nobody is saying it will necessarily solve crime. Though again I ask what is the immediate solution? How is a man supposed to have any comfort at night ? These bandits take boldfaceness to a whole new level. "hold on we go fix it" eh making nobody sleep any sounder at night.
Satya, this is not an immediate solution. It isnt a long term solution either.
That is a false sense of security maybe for the macho callow gun-owner. But it puts his/her family at a much greater risk that I think it borders on the irrational, irresponsible side of the fence. Just my opinion.

Would the gun ownership now embolden the owner to go out and be less careful late at night? More probability of incidents.
Would the gun ownership make the owner a bit more on edge? Is this just a case of slotting a deadly weapon seamless into a daily routine? No way!

[Sumana]

is it? Or is that a convenient urban legend?

Then what about writing an anon letter? Calling from a payphone?


Nope in this case the person by mistake and out of habit identified themselves, only to have a criminal suddenly contact them and say we know u called 'n reported xyz

[Satya]

Falcon under normal circumstances I wholeheartedly agree with you. Unfortunately we have a very abnormal situation in Trinidad. What is your suggestion that gives people a piece of mind? The only real long term solution is to repair the justice system, but let's not start there because that is a ridiuculously unrealistic expectation. So what is the next step? There are some people that I don't want to have a gun period, legal or otherwise, but at the same time you cannot say he does not have a right to protect his loved ones just like me given the current situation in Trinidad. What to do?

[Falcon]

Unfortunately I dont know what could represent a good short term solution outside of curfews and lots of monitored cctv with rapid response.
Making the situation worse by giving untrained people weapons under the guise of protecting loved ones is certainly too dangerous to help. I dont see that as helpful in the least!

The enigma for me is that we dont trust the Gov't/Police alliance to reduce crime, yet we entrust the self same alliance to get gun licencing done rightly, fairly, responsibly. How does that wash?

[Scorpio]

Those of you who talking about physcological evalualtion before a citizen is given a gun, please remember, this is TRinidad we are talking about, a place where you can buy just about anything, and I presume that a clean phych evaluation could be bought as easily as money passes now to "grease the wheels" for people to get gun licenses.

After being the victim of a robbery in Trinidad, I applied for a gun license, and I was told that I could make the process go faster by greasing the wheels. Now, I didn't go through with the gun license because I left Trinidad, but I know how things work. It's not only politicians who are corrupt in Trinidad. ;)

[Falcon]

It's not only politicians who are corrupt in Trinidad. ;)

Truer words than this have never been spoken on this forum.

[peanut]

While a State of Emergency is worth putting it place, it cannot be used as a substitute for good Law Enforcement. There has got to be a sustainable and effective measure put in place for after the SoE is lifted.

T&T need draconian measures to stem the tide of crime right now. If I were MJ, I would ask the US for long term Military Police assistance. Upon their arrival, declare a SoE and re-vamp the entire Police Service!

[Scorpio]

^^ ok, pnut, I am not sure I want to give up Trinidad's soverinity either, there must be a better way. :shock:

[peanut]

Scorp the Sovereignty is NOT being given up! It is a temporary measure to stem the tide of crime until an efficient, effective and trustworthy Police Service can be established.

[Scorpio]

^^Pnut, talk to the Iraqis about that and then come back and tell meh. :|

[peanut]

You cannot compare Iraq with T&T .. or are you saying that Manning = Sadam?

Jump high or jump low something NEEDS to be done and the Gov't has admitted it does not have the skill. They are already importing foreigners and paying them a ridiculous amount of money and all the consultations go for nought.

T&T does not need any more consultations .. T&T needs actions and it eh coming from the Police Service because in part they and the Gov't are the source of the problem.

[Scorpio]

^^you missed my point, what I meant was look how the US forces can't leave Iraq yet although they want to; I am saying that the same thing could be the result of your plan..

[peanut]

Hence the readon I did not say the Army or Marines, I said Military Police which is a whole different unit.

[JPersad]

To all of you who are so against law abiding citizens having the option to carry a licensed firearms, all I can say is that you believe that the crime situation is not that bad and maybe even under control .That is certainly not true .
However it is better to have a firearm and not need it , than not to have a firearm when you really need it .
Which one of you would watch helplessly while a criminal rapes your mother , wife or daughter and not wish you were able to defend them ?
Sorry ,but Trinidad Law enforcement does not inspire confidence amongst it citizens.

[dancerboy]

FALCON, arming the citizens will not reduce crime, but it will surely reduce the rate of recidivism. Because when u put a bullet in a bandit arse, if you eh kill him/her dead, he/she go be badly wounded. As far as leaving the criminals to the police, in many cases they are one and the same. Also if a bandit robs a citizen, and when he/she turns to run, about six civilians with gun in he/she ass, one ah dem must shoot him/her. DANCERBOY

[neilrmp]

Just like we want to keep our rights to free speech, the right to keep and bear arms should be our too.

"IT'S THE PITS
By Sue Donna Maus
So Pit Bulls killed a dozen people last year. Big deal !

Automobiles kill more than a dozen people every day. No one is screaming for laws banning cars or impounding cars that kill. Why ? Because we all recognize that cars don't kill people ~ drivers of cars kill people.

Handguns kill more than a dozen people every day. A few are screaming for laws banning handguns ; but these are drowned out by louder screams from the opposite side. Why? Because guns don't kill people ~ people using guns kill people.

Tobacco kills more than a dozen people every day. No one is screaming for laws banning tobacco. Why? Because tobacco doesn't kill people ~ people using tobacco kill themselves.

Alcohol kills more than a dozen people every day. No one is screaming for laws banning alcohol; we tried that a few years ago and found that it didn't work very well. Alcohol doesn't kill people ~ people using alcohol kill themselves and other people.

Heroin and cocaine each kill more than a dozen people every day. We do have laws banning heroin and cocaine, but they don't work very well. Drugs don't kill people ~ people using drugs kill themselves and others.

But Pit Bulls kill a dozen people a year. So the news media are having the greatest orgy since the Challenger blew up. As a result , everybody is hysterically screaming for laws banning Pit Bulls, impounding Pit Bulls, killing Pit Bulls. Our astute politicians, quick to note which way- a 100 m.p.h. wind is blowing, are racing each other to be the first to supply such laws. Those who can't be first, will compensate by proposing more extreme laws."

NRA Life Member
Gun Owner.

[KFCSpicy]

I see.....

but automobiles, heroin, cocaine, pitbulls or even gerbils that high on soya bits were not created to hurt or to harm GUNS WERE!

So if a man buy a weapon...not a toy...it's called a weapon. I am sure he not buying it to pick pomerac or beat he drums or dig he ears with. I sure there is no dispute that people are the reasons why there are so much heart ache behind so many innocuous (sp) things that have turned deadly. But your post indicates that these same people will also be the reasons for accidental deaths and an increase in "Self Defense" murders too.

Guns don't kill people yes, we all agree, but guns were created to destroy life. Ask the deer and all the other animals and the other million or so dead people if you can.

Go on and excerise yuh rights to kill cause basically owning a gun is just another way of saying death is the answer to all yuh problems. I sure hope no one gets your gun away from you and sure hope all yuh watch as much Death Wish movies and the likes to get all yuh buff and ready to kill each other. :)

[neilrmp]

[quote="KFCSpicy"]
harrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrharrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr harrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I concur Trinisuckzbigtime people shud be alert so that they can beat these little boys senseless and then hang them publicly after all they don't deserve life or rehabilitation until they are corpses...right??? Good luck on finding these mini criminals...my take is they must be from the East of which villages is too many to name and for fear of retribution by those on the forum who ummm.... not living in the area.

I also hope that when you catch the 12 year old that you leave no DNA evidence for the corrupt police to find so beat him to death and then boil the body not vice versa.

Just my two cents.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.--- John Quincy Adams

I could see why you don't need a gun.

[KFCSpicy]

sigh

you are new and i will forgive yuh inadequacy to understand sarcasm on here. Before yuh re post something to prove a point read up on alllllll the other posts before. I eh have nothing more to say to you as i done see yuh go be another one of them so.

know yuh history so yuh cud know yuh future. translated for this forum...know what was said before yuh take things and run with it my good man.

good day to you.

[Scorpio]

:D :D :D :D :D :D

Oh gorm, meh belly aching fuss dat one make meh laugh........

But, seriously, neilrpm, I can see how you came to the wrong conclusion being new, but KFC spicy was being sarcastic, and for the record so was I on that other thread. :D :D

[neilrmp]

Thank you , My Apologies KFCspicy.

[dancerboy]

NEILRMP, i do agree with your position on arming citizens. I lived in NEW YORK, and do have a license to keep a gun. Since FLORIDA is not a gun control state, all i had to do was have my gun club ship my gun to a gun club in FLORIDA. I showed my FLORIDA'S driver's license, a background ckeck was done, and i was given my gun. If i want a permit to carry it, i have to take a three-hour safety course. But, i do not see the need for me to be walking with a gun. At least not now. Also, states that have no gun control have fewer murders than states that have gun control. DANCERBOY

[Sumana]

Speaking of this, there's apparently a gun battle been going on from 11:45 in San Juan - not sure if it's stopped.

[Sumana]

12:26am Shots still being fired

[KFCSpicy]

No probs NielRMP, we all make silly assumptions when we get fired up on things. Even me! Thanks!

[gaia]

FIRE DE PNM!!! a VOTE OF NON-CONFIDENCE WILL DO!!

[neilrmp]

Dancerboy, I myself do not see the need to carry, I use my firearm for Target shooting mostly although my permit allows me to have them loaded in my home.

[peanut]

FIRE DE PNM!!! a VOTE OF NON-CONFIDENCE WILL DO!!

And put who .. the UNC! Under No Circumstances

[Scorpio]

No need to go as far as to fire the PNM, they won the elections fair & square, but a sucessful vote of no confidence against Manning could give us a new PM who has what it takes to deal with the crime wave currenty gripping TNT.

[KFCSpicy]

I still waiting to hear what the UNC has ever done for trinidad and tobago? and no one not one of their staunch supporters has ever given me a list of at least 3 or 5 things besides hang Dole Chadee to make sure that he eh implicate them when he go before the courts to save he own skin. Little did he know eh!

So stop blaming the government for all yuh actions is all yuh does go about daily in trinidad and disregard things right in front of all yuh eyes. It so easy to point fingers and not do jack sht about things.

[vaio]

K...three things....they built the airport....built all them primary schools and built the police stations....they also got removed from gov't by themselves...

[KFCSpicy]

the airport without a tower? the airport with the kickbacks? building new schools but not maintaining the old? right they do so much. :roll:

[vaio]

hey that is their boast....i still tryin to figure out how much a door cost in the airport projet...$80,000 is a lot!!!

[KFCSpicy]

lmaooooooooooooooo must be a door that ummm talks and give travel advisory. who are we to question their upstanding people oriented motives?

anyways, i tired of these posters who think their opinions are law or should be. i want convo not constant aggro. Vaio we go bounce on the threads for normal people. this one has reached it's expiry date with me.

[vaio]

amen sister..... ;)

[KFCSpicy]

I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with computers.

[vaio]

:lol:

[Scorpio]

I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with computers.


I'm in favor of giving the fools high powered weapons, they so stupid they're likely to shot themselves and make the world a better place.

[vaio]

can i submit a list of ppl....startin with......... :arrow:

[KFCSpicy]

no such luck Scorps..it go be the innocent pre-teen on a bike ride in an "High Class" :roll: neighbourhood.

[Scorpio]

True... :|

[Zazoo]

Guns don't kill. People do.

[KFCSpicy]

:roll: tiresome and cliched^^^

even if u take the bullets out of a gun u get bludgeoned to death with it. it was not created for fun it was made to kill. so whether is a 4 year old playing wid daddy's loaded gun and accidentally blow heself or lil sis away or is a loser tryna rob/kill yuh, or is hunting for food or defending yuhself and yuh property.... the gun is still the WEAPON used by the PERSON to end life.

so yuh should amend yuh statement to people with guns are killers my dear. :|